Sorry to the Waterlox folks, but here in Canada this wonderful product seems mightly expensive and out of my budget. Does anyone know of a similar modified tung oil product that I could use with a similar effect that is Canadian, or at least easily found in Canada?

Thanks!
Fixitgirl

I'm not in Canada but can you get Watco products? Watco has been making tung oil penetrating finishes for a very long time and is highly regarded. I'm not saying it is on the same caliber as Waterlox, just an alternative.

I was just wondering, is Watco oil more for furniture than floors? Even if it is, you could probably put the Watco oil on THEN top-coat with oil-based polyurethane for more durability.

Waterlox original sealer costs me $40.00 per gallon (U.S.) at True Value Hardware. That's not a bad price for what you get. What does it cost in Canada?
Charlie

Charlie, Here's one guys epinion.
I can recommend the following commercial products on the basis of personal experience. There may be others in the marketplace that just as good, but I have yet to find them.

* Daly's Sea-Fin Teak Oil® is a Tung Oil finish that is widely available in the Northwest. In recent years their distribution has increased, so it may be available in other areas. In my opinion, it is the best of the commercial wipe-on products. It is easy to get a good finish when the directions printed on the label are followed.
* Waterlox® is a nationally available Tung Oil product that is similar to Sea-Fin. It is generally available only through the mail-order catalogs. It is available as either the "Original" or as a "Marine" finish. Other than the "Marine" costing $10 more per gallon, I have never found any difference between them. Buy the "Original" because it is cheaper.
* Gillespie's Tung Oil Finish® is an excellent Tung Oil finish that is not quite as good (personal opinion) as Sea-Fin or Waterlox, but it is usually available at most paint specialty stores, Home Depot, Lowe's, and similar retailers. stores.
* Hope's Tung Oil Finish® is an excellent product that I have not used for several years because it is difficult to find, and when I have, the stock was very old. If you can locate fresh stock, try it. You will be pleased with the results.
* Watco® Teak Oil Finish, in the can with the blue label. While it is a Linseed Oil finish with UV inhibitors added, its finishing properties are considerably different from the more familiar Watco Danish Oil in the can with the brown label. If you have sworn-off on Watco® products because of things you have heard, or have had bad experiences with them, then try this one. I think that you will like it. Even the Danish Oil has improved since ownership by Flecto has returned it to its original formula.


Also, DuraSeal can also be used as an oil only finishing system.
http://www.duraseal.com/sections/produc ... n-fini.htm

It depends on where you are. Another person told me of a company in Squamish BC (a bedroom community of Whistler, one of the most expensive places to buy real estate) and they charge $99 CDN a gal. I went to Blaine Washington and paid 46 USD which is still cheaper and a lot closer to me. I emailed a while asking about Penofin but was told that Waterlox is the best product for floors however, Penofin does have an oil for interior use - Gold Label I believe and that stuff is about $50 CDN a gal.

A footnote about my experience with Waterlox, though the floor looks good, I was frustrated how I got these blotches of either empty patches or pooling. I used lambswool and I followed Waterlox's instructions. Overall, I like the look but on the other hand I wasn't expecting such a glossy finish - I was expecting a more natural look. I'm going to leave it for now and once the mutt dies (he's old) perhaps then I'll remove the finish and try again.

Bilechuck:

If your only concern is that Waterlox is too glossy, then the solution is simple:
Just clean the floor, (no need to abrade; in fact, it's best if you don't abrade!), then apply satin sheen Waterlox over it. This will easily adjust the sheen and at the same time remove any blemishes from wear.

Charlie

I'm learning more and more everyday...The floor is done, the medallion is installed. The guy that will sand the floors comes tomorrow.

My list of finishing products has expanded. I've learned that 90% of the products called 'tung oil' are not. Most are varnishes with varying amounts of oil bonded through cooking to the resin, and either thinned or not. Some are a varnish/oil blend sinply mixed together with some solvent or other.

So my choices are -

Varnish/Oil Blends among which are the Danish oil's - watco, deftoil, behr scandanavian oil, Minwax Tung oiil, McCloskey's (of those McCLoskeys is the only one that uses real tung oil and not linseed oil). No idea where to buy it however.

Varnish (thinned or Wipe-on) among which are Waterlox products, Farmby's, Hopes, Daly's, jasco, Gillespie, Zar, Varathane...Also, no idea where to get most of these in Canada. Varathane is linseed based so off my list, waterlox is 60$ a gallon which is pricey for me, and the others are not in Canada I don't think.

I'm staying away from polyurethane based products. Phenolic resins, or alkyde resins are my first choice. Spar varnishes are an option and readily available here, except they are too glossy.

So now I'm over-educated, and still very un-decided.

Fixitgirl

I am curious. Why not use poly? I'll tell ya, 25 years finishing floors and I still think a good urethane finish is the easiest and best for floors. You know all the prefinished floors are done with poly. Now, Waterlox is an attractive finish but it doesn't stay that way for long. Scuffs and mars easily. I know, I did 4500 sq.ft. of Carlisile Antique Heart Pine with four coats of Waterlox after staining with Minwax Early American. Looked great: for awhile. Just redid it a few months ago after a couple of years and it looked pretty crappy till I refurbished it. The toughest floor finish available for many years was moisture cured urethane, a nasty beast. Used on many commercial floors and some gyms and bowling alleys. Now, we got Bona Traffic. An easy to use waterbased urethane that is equal in durability to moisture cure. Yes, it's expensive. If it was my house, I'd stain the floor a light golden (maybe mix in a little cherry color) with Bona Dri-Fast stain and follow that up with three coats of Bona Traffic. Your white oak will look a little greyish/blond/green without stain. Trust me on this, white oak natural is not that attractive unless you use a sealer that will enhance the color and bring out the gold in the wood. Use what you want but todays floor finishes are designed to reduce maintenence. Waterlox will not do that. It will require more maintenence.

Fixitgirl:
Gary's right. But he also knows I'm sort of a maverick in the finishing world. So, . . . here goes:

Waterlox is a phenolic resin product. It's a penetrating product that brings out patina, adds warmth, and seals the wood wonderfully. But I agree with Gary that it does not hold up to use as well as polyurethane. After all, polyurethane evolved from the need for a stronger, more durable finish than the earlier shellacs/wax and tung oil finishes. Fabulon first came out with a type of polyurethane in 1936 that they put on bowling allies (alleys?)

(Here's where you can get creative!) You can put two coats of Waterlox Original Sealer, WAIT 3 DAYS CURE TIME, then 1 coat of a 2-component water-based product (i.e. Traffic by Bona Kemi or, my favorite, Vermeister's Idro 2-K), abrade, vacuum, final coat. This is called a hybrid finish (changing from a coat of oil-based to water-based). Or if you prefer, you can put two coats of oil-based polyurethane over Waterlox if you prefer.

Again, Gary's right about the greater durability when top-coating with a polyurethane. The above mentioned water-based poly's can be used even on commercial dance floors. THEY ARE ABOUT THE MOST DURABLE OF ANY PRODUCT I KNOW OF TODAY. In three days they're about 90% cured and you can move your furniture back on. 100% cured in 1 week.

Just my opinion.
Charlie

I've yet to see a poly floor finish that didn't look like plastic. And the re-finish, while far in the future, requires sanding which my little 3/8ths won't take, and neither will my pocket book. I wanted something with a greater ease of maintenance. Touching up the traffic areas every 3 years is not frequent maintenance to me. I mean, It's THREE years. That's a long time. Maybe a final coat of urethane is the way to go?

Can I readily put an oil-based urethane over waterlox?

Fixitgirl.

Have you seen a satin poly finish? In Traffic? In OMU? I'll bet not or you wouldn't be saying they look like plastic. I'll tell ya, four coats of Waterlox Original is pretty shiny and plastic looking to me. I know they have a satin as well. And that is what Charlie just said, once thoroughly dry, you can coat over Waterlox with OMU or waterbased. As for refinishing, no reason to unless the floor is very damaged. With a poly finish, one just needs to abrade, clean and recoat; same as Waterlox. Go ahead, pay $60.00 for Waterlox if you want. I could produce a tougher finish that looked just as good, if not better, for one third the cost in materials. BTW, does this look like plastic to you?
http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwo ... .php?t=226

It's a Traffic finished floor in satin. Think Waterlox is gonna look better? Think again. NOT!

Fixitgirl:
Sorry to say this, and please don't take it the wrong way, but . . . .
you're raising issues that I settled years ago. The penetrating look of the Waterlox sealer over-rides the concern of "plastic" look whether top-coating with oil OR water.
If you like . . . go to this site: http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwo ... php?t=1047

The first pic is a satin water-based on common white oak. the second is Waterlox sealer (2 coats), with 2 coats of satin oil-based poly on common oak. I guess it explains it in the comments.

You can re-coat Waterlox with oil-based with the same timing as oil-based poly or Waterlox recoating . . . when it's dry (usually 12 + or - hours)
Is either one of these coatings too "plastic" looking? "Plastic is in the eye of the beholder . . . " (Isn't that a famous quote??)


Hope this helps.
Charlie

Guys, I appreciate your input, and I totally agree with you that polyurethanes are tougher than wiping varnishes and oil blends. I'm sorry to say that I don't have the skill to apply waterbased so I'm not even going to try. Anyway, my neighbor had her 130 year old kitchen wood floor sealed in waterbased, and the other old rooms in poly oil...well the waterbased has been re-done 3 times beacause of scratching and marring, and the others not once. I don't have that kind of money.

I need something with great ease of application, because if I make a mistake, I'll be upset with myself for years over it. I know poly is stronger than oil blends, but I don't really have 'traffic areas'. I use oriental rugs in the hall ways, and principle rooms, my kitchen is tiled, and no-one wears shoes. I don't have a dog either.

By the way Charles, spar varnishes are a mix of tung and phenolic resins...which is the same ingredients in waterlox. What's the difference..more oil?

fixitgirl

Waterlox makes spar varnish also. They could better answer that question. Sorry.

I think you're tending toward a penetrating oil and top-coating with OIL-BASED poly. Oil-based is like kids' play compared to other finishes. Be sure to get a good brand.
Charlie