Hello all. I have a customer who has 15 year old Pine floors. Yellow Pine from what I can see. She is adamant about applying a stain before we finish. In 10 years of flooring I have stained 2 Pine floors. On the first one I applied a conditioner after sanding, screened the floor again after about 12 hrs, then applied stain. I could wipe the stain almost completely off the floor, and when I coated I had a horrible time preventing the stain from blotching/lifting.
After this experience,on the next Pine floor, I decided to skip the conditioner application. The staining process was impossible using our wipe on/wipe off process, it just looked blotchy, so i applied the stain heavily with a lambs wool applicator, completely saturating the wood, then wiped off as usual. It looked perfect, but we used 3x more stain than usual. On both of the above mentioned projects I used Water based stain and Tung Oil finish.

On this application, we'll be using water based finish.Any ideas/product suggestions that'll make the stain application easier/more efficient on Yellow pine? Typically, on hardwoods, we use Minwax oil stain, and just make sure we give it more than sufficient dry time when using Water finish.Yes or no on the conditioner?? Thanks for any thoughts.

Minwax wood conditioner works to a point. It's very simple.Lambswool it onto the floor , give it 20 minutes to penetrate and then wipe the floor with clean rags to remove any excess conditioner.Then stain immediately after.it isn't a miracle product but it does help the stain go on more evenly than without the conditioner.

You can also use dewaxed shellac thinned 50% with denatured alcohol. I think the thinned shellac works better.Either way, both products are super thin and only partially seal the wood grain,leaving room for the stain to attach itself to the wood grain as well.

What water base are you planning to use ?

Thanks for your input.
Will be using Sampson Coatings' Wood Armor- H20 2K Water borne Urethane. We've had lots of success with this finish. It's catalyzed, and it ambers over time, which the customer requested.

I think we'll use your advice and probably go with the Minwax conditioner before staining. I'm sure we'll have to allow at least 18 hrs dry time and dry tack before applying finish.

the shellac needs to be cut more than 50%.....it needs to be a reduced to a 1 lb cut..generally,strait out of can is usually a 3lb cut..
this needs to be reduced 3 times....so basically you would use 2 gallons of of alcohol to 1 gallon shellac..


anyway.

there is no need to condition or shellac a pine floor if you use proper technique.

if you sanded and prepared the floor well.

first..when initially beginning to stain..pick your point of start..
ring excess stain off rag over bucket so it don't drip or flood the floor...stain with the grain only.
this is basically "dry ragging" or dry brushing"....once you have a portion, not too large stained, maybe a 3x3 area..you
continue staining by putting the rag in the stain an coming out onto an already stained portion of the floor,
overlap what you have stained and continue staining with grain only...

Again, keep coverage areas minimal until you get the hang of it.

stain in even columns from wall to wall..( i know this sounds basic, but i have seen so many knuckleheads staining across grain in random patterns it makes me sick.)

as long as you dont leave to heavy a wet edge, and dont let sit long(which is why you work in small coverage areas only),, you will not get lap marks, drip marks, or uneven stain..this works for pine, fir and maple too....

been doing this since 91...so I'
ve learned a thing or 2..

Honestly, I'd rather not use conditioner because I know I'll achieve a richer color/better penetration with stain to bare wood.I'm also a bit concerned about any residue that will be left behind by oil conditioner + stain, as we'll be applying Water finish.
So,in short, you're saying dry wipe and don't lay the rag down on bare wood after I dip for stain, right? That makes sense.
Thanks alot.

I've done samples and a couple of floors with conditioner and find that there's virtually no change in color hue or depth .The Minwax conditioner slightly darkens the floor as it penetrates and it is very thin, it leaves nothing behind.And the stain color remains very much the same only it penetrates the grain more evenly. It doesn't seal the wood much at all.At the moment I am doing some work with a faux painter and he has pulled off some incredible floors. He literally did the most evenly stained pine floor I have ever seen

In the case of the pine floor we did, he used thinned shellac and stained over that . The stain was his own oil based mixture as he has all kinds of magical pastes and dyes that he whips up. He also slightly tinted the first coat of poly. The rabbit hole runs deep regarding custom finishing. There's all kinds of esoteric finishing techniques if you have the time and the customer is willing to pay.