Hi,

Where my stairs end on the second floor in a boxed, carpeted hallway, I'm trying to decide how far if at all I should extend the nail down hardwood flooring into the hallway (I have already installed matching treads).

The wife thinks we should just have one 5 1/2" landing tread. I suppose I would have to make the back side into a reducer.

Originally I planned to go about 1 tread width into the hallway (about 12") then reduce to carpet. I know this is a style question but I would appreciate opinions before I cut the carpet.

Related to this -

1. Currently hallway subfloor is OSB(yuk). There is a joist running across the hallway about 12" back from the nosing. I figure I could remove the nails and cut along the center the joist with a circ saw set at 3/4"+ depth. Then I could replace that section with 3/4" ply. Then both the OSB and ply would be supported by a joist. Nailing and gluing the flooring onto OSB would probably be OK for such a small amount of flooring but why take a chance, right?


2. I'll have to make the reducer whether it's from the landing tread or 4" strip. I assume I should cut a bevel on the table saw and then round over the edge? Typically I think the small edge is about 1/4" - 1/2" high for carpet, right?


3. How to terminate the carpet. With tile, I have noticed that usually a tack strip placed about 1/2" back from the tile and the carpet is tucked down between tile and tack strip. Someone told me that for nail down hardwood a Z bar is a better solution. If this is true is it something I can do myself or should I have a carpet guy do it. Unfortunately we installed new carpet before starting this remodel so I have to get it right.


Thanks,

Alex

1.) Gluing & fastening to the OSB is the way to go. Screw the OSB down good and pull any nails used to fasten the OSB down.


2.) I'd have to see it to understand. What can I say, I'm a "visual" person.


3.) There are some cases where Z-bar works, like going to a vinyl floor or to concrete, where the height of the opposing floor is the same as the subfloor under the carpet, or a flooring with little height, and nothing to tuck against. If you use a reducer, a z-bar may be needed because there is no height to tuck against. You could modify the reducer so as it slopes down, cut it co it will have something to tuck against.

If it is a ¾" hardwood, you may want to use a "Carpet Shim" http://www.carpetshim.com And not worry about a transition.[/url]

Just make a roundover at the back of the molding. You don't need z-bar.

If you want to raise your carpet up a little,carpet shims will work ;but they are not really necessary. Scraps of sheet vinyl can be used to do the same thing for a lot less money. Carpet shims are not easy to find.

Instead of a 3/4" landing strip, use a 1/2" and tuck the carpet to it. I think the idea of installing a full tread at the top of the stairs would look weird. Just install a standard stair nose/landing strip/bullnosing; that's the way pros would do it. Any other way would look like a homeowner special.

Gary,
"Landing tread" is another name for 5-1/2 in stairnose. That is what trim guys call it around here.

alexh's original post said he had originally planned on installing a full tread (12") at the top of the stairs. It was his wife's idea to go with the 5&1/2" landing strip (what we call it around here per the distributors). I always called it stair nosing; my distributors call it landing strip and it comes in 2 widths, 3&1/2" and 5&1/2". You can get it in any wood and thickness; 5/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4". It is normally unfinished. The thickness at the front nose part is the same as a stair tread, 1&1/16". So my idea of using a thinner (1/2") landing strip at the top of the stairs is what most, if not all, stair builders would do. Whether you want it 3&1/2" wide or 5&1/2" wide is a matter of preference. After installing it and finishing it, simply install a piece of tack strip behind it about 3/8" and tuck the carpet into the space between the tackstrip and the landing strip. I can't imagine doing it any other way.

Alex,

I've seen many done the way Chuck is suggesting and they look fine, but you have a potential 1/4inch trip hazard right at the top of your stairs (great for getting rid of elderly in-laws). Most people won't even notice, but as we get older, we tend not to pick up our feet as much. I've had people complain, trip and threaten to sue for 1/8inch difference. (Keep in mind that I live in an area people come to retire.)

Some prefer to have the carpet wrap the top nose, with the wood on the riser. Sometimes it looks natural that way, other times it looks like hell. I have yet to figure out why?

Personally I prefer what Gary is suggesting with a narrower strip. It finishes the nose but doesn't really impact the hall, and it's safe. With prefinished product you don't always get the option of thinner nosings, in those cases we normally wrap the carpet.

Truth is that we normally recommend against hardwood on the stairs. Most of our customers are more comfortable with carpet underfoot on stairs. Those that do have us install it, have us back soon after to fit runners. Then our installer has to look at the customers and tell them that we are about to fill their expensive new stairs with holes.
If you want the wood look to carry up the stairs, get some thinner product and cap the sides. Then install carpet between.

What do you prefer and why?

Color me purple.

I missed the whole tread thing. I read too fast.

If a thinner landing strip is not available, it is simple to modify the thickness to whatever size you need. The "reveal" underneath is typically 2". Simple raise your table saw blade to the reveal depth (2") and set the fence at the thickness you need. Then rip off the excess from underneath. Now your 3/4" thick landing strip is 1/2" Easy as pie; I do it all the time.

Thanks Guys - I thought this thread died so I did not look at for a while.

I didn't really mean to put a tread in on the landing - just the landing tread plus a couple of strips. Just though I'd mention that so you don't think I'm totally off my rocker but perhaps it's too late.

I agree that one landing tread is way to go - my landing treads are 5&1/2" wide by 3/4" thick. Gary, you seem to be suggesting I rip it to about 3" total. Again it's a matter of preference but I'd like to do it the "typical" way. I'll reduce the thickness as you suggest and then round the back edge where it meets carpet.

Gary, do you think it's OK to screw and glue the landing tread with compact head screws over OSB? I have had to remove a lot of OSB already and I'm getting good at it so I wouldn't mind removing a small section to replace with 3/4" ply. My OSB is installed with spiral nails which makes it particularly fun to remove. By the way, where do you guys buy spiral nails - I just get a funny look when I ask for them at the big box stores?

Do you screw down all landing treads with screws (the ones with hardwood behind them will also be blind nailed through the slip tongue of course)?

As far as stair codes, I replaced/redesigned the bottom stringers/horses/carraiges to meet code since my bottom floor increased about 1&1/2" due to subfloor + hardwood although I think people rarely worry about a short first step. In my case since the stringers cracked in several places when I pulled out the numerous spiral nails + OSB treads so it was a no brainer. The upper part of my stairs consists of 4 boxed treads and I shimmed the horses with 1/2" ply to get a consistent rise. I think with a 3/4" top landing tread I was tall by a quarter inch on the last step but now if I make a 1/2" landing tread I'll be dead on.

Thanks for the help

PS. Andrew - what can I say? I like wood. But I'll tell you a funny story. When I was initially working on the lower section (10 treads) of my stairs I temporarily had the old OSB treads resting on the stringers so I could go up and down the stairs. I was working near the top one day and I got careless and the tread slipped off the supports. Unfortunately it didn't end there as I proceeded to slide down the stairs as my feet removed all of the treads in front of me. I ended up bouncing down the stringer in a seated position with a big pile of treads in front of me. When I stopped I realized I wasn't seriously injured except for some nasty bruises on my backside from the points of the stringers.

I have considered that we may want to add a carpet over the treads. I thought that these could be attached by nailing only the risers which in my case are paint grade. Is this not the case? Also, are these rugs typically custom made (I don't want carpet)?

Hi alexh,

If what you call a landing tread (we call landing strip) is 5&1/2" wide, I'd cut it to length a put it in place to see if I liked the appearence. If it looks good to you, then fine. If not, then you could rip 2" off and have a thinner one. Either way is aceptable, although ripping the thickness down to 1/2" will be easier with the 3&1/2" width. I don't think you'll need to round over the back edge. Once you cut it to length, dry fit it and see how the carpet looks. Most carpet pad alone is 1/2"+ the carpet so I'd bet the carpet will be higher than the landing strip. You may want to check this BEFORE you rip the thickness down to 1/2". You may decide 5/8" is better. As far as attaching it, a good glue will do most of the work so you don't need screws. There should be some framing members there at the top besides the OSB so aim to nail into those with #10 galv. finish nails. The reason is 10's are 3" which will get you 1&1/2" into your framing joists and the galving on the nail is rough and will supply more holding power. I don't like putting big holes in nice wood. As I said, the glue will do most of thw work. And no need to replace the OSB; that landing strip isn't going anywhere once glued and nailed well.

I would always opt for the full 5-1/2 inches. It is much more stable in the long run. You could get by just gluing the 5-1/2 in.

As far as the height at the back, shimmming up the carpet is an awful lot easier than modifying the trim would be.

CHU

Gary, that is a common DIY mistake too. The ½" padding doesn't com close to the wood transition, so you don't have a ½" in height under the carpet right at the transition. What you have is the thickness of a piece of tackstrip and the carpet will slope off the ½" padding down to the ¼" tackstrip.
Your going to need a carpet with a pile height of more then a ½" for it to be taller then the ¾" wood.

Been there done that many, many times.

Unless you jack the srip. A scrap of masonite is good for that. I carry a box of toeless vinyl base for shimming strip. I took off about 1000 feet a while back and boxed it all up. Much cheaper than carpet shims.

I have tucked carpet to wood literally hundreds of times. Everyone is making a big deal out of a simple task. You'll noticed I recommended reducing the thickness of the landing strip so that it would be level or even with the carpet. I can't say how much because we can't see his carpeting. He could have 3" shag for all I know. I know if I tuck any carpet with pad to a 3/8" or 5/16" floor, that carpet will sit proud of the wood. Many carpets will be flush with a 3/4" floor but will have that small drop right where it tucks. Simply double strip, one on top of another. If you want, add a piece of cardboard or what have you underneath the tackstrip. I have a floorman's foot and can always feel where carpet has been shimmed up to wood, tile, etc. so I never cared for that shimming method unless there was no other way. If this was my house, I'd rip the thickness of the landing strip so it was flush with the carpet and fur up the tackstrip. I would sligthly ease the backside of the landing strip so it wouldn't splinter. Simple, nice, clean and even, the way it should be done.