What is considered to be the acceptable height variation between planks (end joint-to-end joint or side-to-side) -- what I believe is termed an "overwood" condition -- for factory-finished Bruce hardwood flooring?? I've received conflicting information. Bruce 3/4" (2 1/4" width) hardwood, nail-down planking (beveled edge) was installed in my new home. The quality of the installation was poor. Aside from the precision of the cuts and the excessive (and prominent) nailing of the last 3-6 end rows of planks in each room, some 50% of the end joints in the house have noticeable height variations.

I have been variously told that plank-to-plank height variations shouldn't exceed: 1) 0.016", 0.018", the "thickness of a credit card" (which I estimate to be about 0.022"), or "there is no standard." I've also been told that Bruce factory-finished hardwood flooring is not formally governed by the standards set by the National Oak Flooring Manufacturers Association (NOFMA).

What is the customary/generally accepted maximum height variation that I should reasonably apply to my Bruce hardwood floooring?? Pleas help.

Newbury,

I feel you pain, I just installed a Bruce Northshore product for a client and it has been a pain. Great looking floor but with the lippage AKA overwood and other manufacturing defects, it causes more work to get it right. I cringe ever time we have to install a Bruce product. On some of Bruce’s pre-finished products they do not micro bevel the edges and naturally this is going to create lippage, you said that yours was beveled though which should make the lippage less noticeable. Are you sure they installed beveled wood? With pre-finish overwood is normal to an extent due to wood being a natural product and from my experiences with Bruce there will be deviation but it should not be excessive, it should be around the height of a business card and no higher than a credit card. Personally, if it is higher than a business card we pull the board and replace it. This creates a real problem because when you are laying 2000 sq. ft. some boards are going to slip through. Anyway, if it is higher than a credit card I think you have the right to ask the installer to pull and replace the board as when you start getting above that they become visibly noticeable.

50% is excessive; I pulled two boards after the install due to lippage and defects in 2000 sq. ft. on average we mark maybe 5% to 7% of the flooring to be culled and used for cuts due to defects with Bruce.

Each manufacture will have a diffrent set of standards so to find out what bruces is you will have to find ou tfrom them and I can tell you right now they are not going to give that kind of info out to anyone. My father was with bruce for almost 15 years and they are a big company with big bucks so more than likely they would never tell you a specfic. They will send a rep out to look and if your complant is valid, you stand a good chance of having the problem resolved. Keep your temper at bay and explain what you expect and see what they say. Btw the standard i have been told for solid wood is .010 to .012 For what its worth, the flooring itself is not the only reason a floor will have high edges or overwood. Your subfloor needs to be flat as well, floor prep is often overlooked and ignored until its a problem. Your floor will contour to whats underneeth. Also if a board with a micro bevel is just a hair narrow it looses its bevel and now is more or less a square cut, once that board is buttted up to one with the proper width and bevel it stands out more.

Newbury:
Just a question (and your answer has nothing to do with what you've been writing about):
How much per square foot did you pay for this flooring? And how much to install it?
Thanks in advance.
Charlie

Charlie:

I'll have to pull the paperwork on the installed options in my home. Sorry, but I don't recall the cost of the hardwood flooring...but I'll check. The cost of the flooring and the installation were bundled together -- along with the override of the building contractor (Winchester Homes). Again, I'll check.
Newbury

KLS & KevinD:

Thanks for the input.
Again, for clarification, with few exceptions, the height variations board-to-board are at the end joints...which are not beveled, but are square-cut, and have sharp edges.

If I correctly interpret your comments, typical height variation at the end joints is about the thickness of a business card, while common practice is to accept a maximum height variation the thickness of a credit card. Is that correct??

Using a feeler gauge, I estimate the thickness (or height) of a business card to be 0.016" and a credit card to be nearly twice that, or 0.030". A business card height variation isn't very noticeable. But a difference equal to a credit card is clearly noticeable both by sight and in walking -- particularly if not wearing shoes (your toes don't appreciate it!).
Does the prevelance of credit-card-high end joint variations affect the acceptability of the product and/or the installation?? My floor has numerous end joint height variances the thickness of a credit card. I'm very concerned about having 25%-50% of the boards replaced in my floor. A third-to-a-half of the floor will be nailed-down, with the remaining replaced boards glued to the subfloor!

Any further thoughts and recommendations. Thanks.

Can't help here but it sounds like common Bruce "builders grade" flooring. Nasty sock catchers too. Credit card thickness? I've seen and installed worse. Ray Darrah(inspector) may have some input on the subject.

Good luck

This is going to create more “noticable” height variations than beveled edges. The tradeoff is that it looks like a more traditional product.



Newbury, if you get a chance can you post the exact product that was installed if it was builder grade then there are defiantly going to be more defects and variations in the wood. It really depends on what you paid for as to what is acceptable. I may have jumped the gun a little on my first comment, though credit card rule is what we follow, we do not install sub-grade products if the product is a builders grade the price should reflect it and you have to accept the fact that you are buying a sub-grade product. I do not install low grade Bruce, if I did I would definitely allow for more variations due to the fact that it is a low grade product. It does in the end come down to you get what you pay for so knowing the product will help determine what may be generally acceptable.




It depends on the product; if it was top of the line yes you have the right to have a near perfect floor. If it was a cottage or b grade product and they did not charge you for A grade product then you may be asking too much of the installer.

Unfortunately, as you have found this is a gray area. It really depends on a few factors one of which is the product and the other is how much your installer is willing to make it right. It does not affect the integrity of the floor so proving you have a defective install would be difficult at best. If it is A grade product then you have legitimate concerns if it is builders grade then the most acceptable recourse as I see it would be a sand and finish to even out the areas given that you say it is 50% of the boards. This brings you back to a gray area, if they did not inform you that you where getting b grade product and charged you for b grade product you may be able to request that they split the cost with you on the sanding. If they charged you for A grade product and they should cover the cost and if they informed you that it was sub-grade before the install and you selected it based on price then you should pay for the cost of correcting it. It is very hard to arm-chair quarter back an install that you cannot see and do not know all of the variables for but from my point of view those would be the actions I would take to correct it from a business owners point of view.

beveled edge? Eased Edges? How does this have overwood? Is the light reflecting on the beveled edges giving the appearance of overwood? The subfloor flatness variations can give the wood the appearance of overwood. Overwood cannot be measured on an installed floor because of subfloor differences, nailing errors...... only on non-installed.
Do you have any wood left over? If so, are there any problems?

If there is a lot of play in the T&G, the substrate flattness will show in the finished product, as Overwood. Bruce is one of the worse for sloppy T&G milling.

.015 is the spec.

A good tightly milled T&G will not be effected by substrate flatness. If overwood is experience with these boards, it is piss poor milling at the factory.

When the overwood cuts your foot, sue all the parties involved!!!
Big liability issues with overwood.