We recently had hard wood floor installed in one room, and have had existing hardwood sanded down and refinished. The result is that all of the floors have raised bumps, many of them.

After the first refinish job, we complained, so they came back out, sanded down to the wood with a drum sander, and then refinished it again. The result was the same. We complained and yet again, they came out, sanded down to the wood, and finished it again.

The weird part is, is that I watched them clean up the floors and they were very very maticulous cleaning up. Also, I made sure that each time, it was a freshly opened drum of oil. In fact, this last time they used a completely different brand to ensure they weren't working with a bad batch.

Only other thing to note is that right after they put the last coat down, you can see in the reflection of the light coming in, the spots that will become bumps once it is dry. Its as if there are thousands of tiny bumbles in the wet oil.

Can anyone help me out. They are telling me its normal, which it is not. We have told the General Contractor that we don't want that particular sub on the job again. The sub is saying that regardless of who we have do the floor, the bumps will occur.

I tried to take pictures of the bumps but can't seem to get them to show in a picture well. The best I could do is this picture:

http://www.blabbernet.net/IMG_6432.JPG

You can barely see it at the end of my finger but in the top right corner and top left corner you can see them.

Any help is much appreciated.

The bumps sound like exactly what Liz described in this post:

http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodinstaller/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1060&highlight=bumps

However, after the first time, we suspected dirt so myself and the GC were their before the final coat the second time to make sure there was no trash or dust on the floors. We also shut off the HVAC and kept all windows closed.

The thing that is odd to me is that there is no dust, yet you can see the bumps as soon as the final coat goes down, when its wet.

First let me say a wood floor will not be as slick as a piece of furniture. With that said, let's move on. Were the debris in the first coat second or all three? It's not unusal for a floor to look bad as it dries but usually the finish will flow out and make a nice smooth coat. Watch the hvac, if it kicks on it will blow dust into the finish. Are they vaccuming with a regular old shop vac? They tend to kick more dust into the are than they pick up. If the flooring contractor is doing his best to remedy the problem I feel he should have the oportunity to do so. IF he has sanded the floor twice already belive me he needs to get it right for both parties, it's already a finiacial loss for him at this point.

They have completed the process 3 times. That is, they have sanded down to bear wood, and then finished.

I believe they are only doing two coats. They have been coming in two days in a row. The first day they sand down to bear wood, put down the poly and leave. The following day they come back and do a sand and second coat.

As for the HVAC, they it has been turned off each of the times and not turned back on until the finish is dry enough to walk on. In addition, the last time, we put plastic up so that the wood floors were isolated from the rest of the house. The only opening is when they open the door to walk out. They literally work towards the door and out.

At this point, we have been going through it for 2 straight weeks. The sub wants to come back and do the same process over again. However, given that he has done it three times already with the same result, we are a bit hesitant unless we understand what the problem is.

In terms of the finished product, as an example of the the depth of the problem, I started couting in one room (~120sq/ft), and gave up when I got to 100 and not even 1/8th of the way through the room. Is that considered normal?

As for their vacuum, I didn't get a good look at it in terms of its ability to get up all the dust, but it isn't a standard plastic looking shop vac. It was medal with a house that estends out with a long thin suction device at the end.

Our GC is maticulous in terms of details, and getting things done exactly the way we want and expect them to be done, so we trust him completely. He has stated that the same flooring guy has done dozens of jobs without the problem that we are having. He also completely agrees that the bumps are not normal, and they we need to do something about it.

I just wish I knew what the problem is so that we can move forward. Right now my wife wants to wait until spring, and then have another company do them. But if the result is going to be the same, whats the point?

Any thoughts?

Could possible be air bubbles coming up. If the finish is stired to much it can produce air bubbles that will pop as the floor dries. I had a stain man tell me about this when I was going to stain some mouldings for a job as something to be careful of.

Are they straining the finish through a fine screen, before application?


After stiring put the lid back on so it doesn't splash, and on concrete, drop the can from about 3 inches high and it will bring most of the bubbles from stirring, up to the top.

Another possibility is heat on the floor from solar gain. Many fail to appreciate the effect this can have on floors and finishes. If there are any windows where the sunlight hits the floors directly, this will cause the flooring in those areas to be much warmer. When the finish is applied, it will dry too rapidly to allow air bubbles to break and flow out. It will also cause finish to blister even when there are no finish bubbles present. The solution is to cover any windows where direct sunlight strikes the floors. Also, about resanding the floors. I don't understand why the floors need to be taken down to the raw wood again for a finish problem. The problem is in the finishing, not the sanding. It may be they are using a finish that is problematic and does not flow well. It may be they are not tacking the floors after vacuuming. My approach is to allow about 1/2 hr after vacuum and before tacking to allow any airborne dust to settle. I also don't think you are going to get a very smooth or nice finish with only two coats. Three is the minimum and I often do four; one sealer and three top coats. One last issue. You will never, in a million years, with a million different flooring subs, get a "flawless" tabletop finish. I have said this for many years;" Floors aren't furniture." The finishing on furniture is done TOTALLY diferently. It is done in a highly controlled environment and it involves multiple steps of special spray finishes (mostly laquer) that dries so rapidly that that dust does not bond. Furthermore, highend furniture finishing employs hand rubbing as the final process to deliver a silky smooth surface. To expect this level of quality on a finished in place floor is asking for what cannot be done. Besides, most minor flaws walk off in a few months anyway. If it were my job, I'd simply buff the floors out and recoat with a slower drying dependable poly, Like DuraSeal or Basic's OMU. Both are real easy to use and almost always look good.

I haven't seen them even stir it. They take the lid off and go at it. As for straining, no, it comes right out of the bucket.

As for my expectation, I don't expect it too look like glass. However, there literally are bumps all over the floor no more than two inches apart, in three different rooms. One of them is the foyer, so of course its the first thing you see when you come in the house, and it looks plain old dirt. It is interesting, another room in the house that was not done has had a large throw down rug on it since day one. I picked the rug up to see what it looks like, and it look brand new. Yes, there are a few simple flaws, but not nearly as bad as the newly finished ones. Its strange that a five year old finish looks hundreds of times better than one that was finished 4 days ago.

Last question, what is "tacking" I would be interested to know if they are doing this at all. As I watch them do it, this is how they do it, all back to back steps with no stopping in between. In fact, every time they have started finishing in one room while another guy is still sanding/vacuuming in another (all rooms are open to each other). First they sand. One guy is on the drum sander one guy is on the orbital sander. Once they clear a room, another guy starts to vacuum. One the guy with the drum sander is done, he goes to the first room and starts to apply the coat with a brush around the edges. Then the guy with the orbital sander starts with an applicator once he has finished. All the while, the guy with the vacuum is still doing his thing. When they do the finish coat, they are literally in and out in 20 minutes. Keep in mind this is ~500sq/ft of floor.

Anyway, I think my best bet is to find someone else to come in and screen the floor. Does that sound like the way to go?

Well if there are sanding in a room next to one they are coating then it's seems a little obvious where the trash is coming from dont you think?

I think you have found your problem!!

I am not a finish man, but that procedure makes no sense to me at all.

I'll find out next Wenesday. After asking tons of people, I found another flooring crew. This guy, he knows his stuff it seems.

He came out and messured the humidity in the rooms with some fancy device, which showed that it was less than 20 percent, which is way below the manufacturer specs. He explained that if the house if extremly dry, that the poly won't find its way to breath as it dries

He also mentioned that possibly the previous person may have used incompatible coats.

In addition, the entire tacking process is being called into question, I know they didn't do it before, and apparently from other customers, the new guy goes nuts with the entire tacking process. He says he tacks until there is no more dust on the cloth. I can say after watching the last crew, they vacuumed the floor and that was it.

Anyway, I found this knew company through the better business bureau as well as calling up references. I am hoping this will solve the problem.

Fingers crossed!

You made the right decision.