Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:18 am 
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Hello,
I have to replace the hardwood flooring in a room of original flooring from 45 years ago when the house was built. Before it was taken out, most contractors told me that it was red oak. After tearing up the old, I found a sticker on the back of several pieces that says "CLEAR WHITE" So, I assume that means it's white oak not red oak and the grade of the wood is CLEAR.

My limited online research tells me that CLEAR is a grade above SELECT but when calling around locally looking for CLEAR WHITE OAK. I'm being told over and over again that CLEAR is what is called SELECT and that the only grade above SELECT is PREMIUM. I'd appreciate it if anyone can clarify this for me.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:05 pm 
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NOFMA grades, in order from most prominent characterics and color variation to least prominent characteristic and color variation, are #2 Common, #1 Common, Select, and Clear.
You can see photo and descriptions here http://www.nwfa.org/member/NOFMAGradePhotos.aspx.

It sounds like they are using their own proprietary standards, but their "premium" would likely be the most comparable to NOFMA Clear. The question is, what was the first floor? Someone else's clear, or NOFMA clear. Without a direct indication on the label, you will probably need to look at their material first hand and make a decision on what looks closest to your existing floor. You can also post some photos here, and poll some opinions. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
The primary difference in grades of flooring material is the range of colour found in the grade, size and frequency of acceptable knots, and average length of any given order.
Basically the accepted grading terminology is as follows

clear
select
#1 common
#2 common
utility

Most mills also offer a "select and better grade" which is a combination of select and clear

Some mills offer a "mill run" grade which is a compilation of all grades above utility.

There are many variations on the terms but essentially thats the way it is.

I am the purchasing agent for the company I work for and as such, bring in materials from all over the U.S. and Canada. If you tell me your general location I may be able to direct you to a quality mill in your area. But be aware that today's available "clear" grade material wont match the standards of 45 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Thanks for the link, that was very helpful.
bw wrote:
The question is, what was the first floor? Someone else's clear, or NOFMA clear. Without a direct indication on the label...
The sticker which states CLEAR WHITE also has a NOFMA CERTIFIED OAK FLOORING seal on it and also says CLOUD OAK FLOORING CO. SPRINGFIELD & WEST PLAINS, MO.

Also, NOFMA LOCKWOOD OAK FLOORING SPRINGFIELD MISSOURI is actually engraved in the back of the piece of flooring itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 pm 
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dennis wrote:
...If you tell me your general location I may be able to direct you to a quality mill in your area.
North Eastern area of the U.S.
dennis wrote:
But be aware that today's available "clear" grade material wont match the standards of 45 years ago.
How have standards changed?


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
North Eastern area of the U.S.

Try Timberline Flooring in Fulton New York. I purchase a lot of rift and quartered white oak from them


How have standards changed

Not so much the standards, but with increased production more allowance for colour variation seems to slip through and be accepted by the industry.
When I started laying floors in the '60's there was very little colour differences, and in retrospect I think it was because we were a much more wastefull society then. Nowadays in an effort to conserve natural resources, what would once be discarded as unsuitable, is utilized if not in the flooring itself, in other aspects of manufacturing.
The chief difference you will find today will be in the length of the boards. We rarely had to have any joints in bedroom installations, and the shorts (the 6 - 8 ft bundles) were used up in living rooms. Today you will be lucky to get one or 2 six foot pieces in a nested bundle of 20 square feet.

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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:08 am 
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Location: Antioch, CA. 94509
I agree. The NOFMA member mills do not grade as well as they did in the past. Personally, I think NOFMA is looking the other way regarding the grading standards. All the issues Dennis mentioned are common. Some mills are worse than others.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:21 pm 
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dennis wrote:
North Eastern area of the U.S.
Try Timberline Flooring in Fulton New York. I purchase a lot of rift and quartered white oak from them
Thanks, decent price but the shipping cost will kill my budget.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Gary wrote:
I agree. The NOFMA member mills do not grade as well as they did in the past. Personally, I think NOFMA is looking the other way regarding the grading standards. All the issues Dennis mentioned are common. Some mills are worse than others.

If that's the case and I'm not going to be hand picking each piece, is clear really worth the extra money?
Here's a section of the flooring I'm trying to match.
Image
Click on the image to enlarge


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Buy the clear grade. It should have more straight grain, which is what you need. The customer should have been informed that you will do your best at getting matching wood but that it's always a crap shoot when patching an old floor. I usually can do so without issue, as long as one uses the same species.


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 Post subject: Re: Clear or Select?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Great...thanks!


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