Amish made hardwood

It is currently Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:54 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:48 pm 
Offline
New User

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm
Posts: 8
We just replaced our 800 sq. ft of solid wood floor with an engineered maple wood floor. The floor is beautiful and the installer did a great job with the layout and no noticeable gaps, but...
It's noisy!!! A few days after install we began noticing pops and crackles when we walk on the floor. Once you step on a spot, it sounds as if the board, "pops" into place and you don't get the sound again in that exact spot until hours later, when it pops back out and you step on it and it pops again. This occurs all over the floor.

After about a week, some of the pops turned into full blown squeaks. I would say we have about 5 spots that squeak all the time and about 50 spots that have made popping/crackling sounds.

As far as the install goes, we acclimated the wood for 1 week prior to install. The moisture on the subfloor was 2% and the moisture in the wood was 3% a few days before install. We did also make sure the installer put tar paper down.

Our house is only 7 years old, and our previous floor made absolutely no noise. So, I don't believe we have any issues with subfloor. This is either a product problem or an install problem, and my bet is on the install.

When I called the installer and asked him about the popping, he said, "In my 25 years of installing, I've never heard of that." After things turned into squeaks I've called and have asked him to come and look at our floor. He's coming over in the next couple of days, and I'm curious about what others think that I should tell him and what I should reasonably expect him to do to resolve the problem.

I really can't stand the noise, and my fear is that he's going to tell me my only option is to face nail every board that makes noise. To leave me with a significant amount of face nailed boards, is not the installation I paid a ton of money for.

Am I being unreasonable to expect a 99.9% silent floor? Any suggestions on how to resolve this?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Amish made hardwood

 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:54 pm 
Offline
Semi Newbie Contributor

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:31 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Coburn, PA.
In addressing this particular problem, there is significant information missing in your post.
- how was the floor anchored, ( staples, cleats, or adhesive) ?

- what is the full thickness of the flooring.

- how many ply ?

- who determined the moisture content of the sub floor & flooring ?

- what area of the US are you located (average humidity)
Can You identify any visible movement (individual boards) where there are squeaks ? This is just a start . . . in helping to uncover the cause of Your stated problem.
Dan @ pro comfort floor tools.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:23 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 705
i suspect 1 of 2 things.


you mention tar paper so I suspect he stapled this floor? if this is the case then m guessing he got a bunch of split tongues.
there can be some "walking out" of newly installed flooring.happeens ussually when installed very tightly over dirving fasteners..floor acclimates while installed too..so g=can get some occasional popping especially in climate changes.

but if its excessive then i believe tongues are broke.

the next guess would be if it was a floating floor, click lock system..there is your culprit..was there a foam used under the flooring?

_________________
James Hernandez
All Flortec Inc, West Milford, NJ

http://www.flortechardwood.net


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:45 pm 
Offline
New User

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm
Posts: 8
pro comfort wrote:
In addressing this particular problem, there is significant information missing in your post.
- how was the floor anchored, ( staples, cleats, or adhesive) ?

- what is the full thickness of the flooring.

- how many ply ?

- who determined the moisture content of the sub floor & flooring ?

- what area of the US are you located (average humidity)
Can You identify any visible movement (individual boards) where there are squeaks ? This is just a start . . . in helping to uncover the cause of Your stated problem.
Dan @ pro comfort floor tools.com


I know there was no adhesive. I'm pretty sure it was stapled. We have 3/4" OSB subfloor with 1/2" 2-ply engineered wood floor. The installer determined the moisture with his meter 3 days before installation began. I live in Utah, and average year round humidity is 55%, according to Wikipedia.

The areas where there are squeaks, I can see the board move up and down as I push on it.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:47 pm 
Offline
New User

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm
Posts: 8
JamesTRD wrote:
i suspect 1 of 2 things.


you mention tar paper so I suspect he stapled this floor? if this is the case then m guessing he got a bunch of split tongues.
there can be some "walking out" of newly installed flooring.happeens ussually when installed very tightly over dirving fasteners..floor acclimates while installed too..so g=can get some occasional popping especially in climate changes.

but if its excessive then i believe tongues are broke.

the next guess would be if it was a floating floor, click lock system..there is your culprit..was there a foam used under the flooring?


I'm pretty sure it's stapled. Definitely not floating or click & lock. If tongues are broken, what should I reasonably expect him to do to remedy the problem?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:54 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 705
Fix it.. :D

in a manner that is acceptable.

he may need to pull some boards up and replace with adhesive.

I wouldn't rule out theOSB either..the staples for engineered flooring arent that long and are thing gauge but they are rated for the install.

I still believe its probably tongues

I also don't believe your subfloors were 2 % and the floor 3%..
if the relative humidity is 55% yer round it wouldnt make sense.

thats just too dry

_________________
James Hernandez
All Flortec Inc, West Milford, NJ

http://www.flortechardwood.net


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:07 pm 
Offline
New User

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm
Posts: 8
JamesTRD wrote:
Fix it.. :D

in a manner that is acceptable.

he may need to pull some boards up and replace with adhesive.

I wouldn't rule out theOSB either..the staples for engineered flooring arent that long and are thing gauge but they are rated for the install.

I still believe its probably tongues

I also don't believe your subfloors were 2 % and the floor 3%..
if the relative humidity is 55% yer round it wouldnt make sense.

thats just too dry


If we didn't have wood floors prior to this install, I would think it could be the subfloor, but our last floor was completely silent.

As far as the humidity, I'm really surprised to see that it says our average is 55%. I would have guessed 5%. We're a desert! A rep at a flooring store told me that with a humidifier in our house we'd be lucky to be over 20% humidity. Whether they knew what they were talking about, I don't know. All I know is that it's super dry here.

It's good to know that there's an option besides face nailing, as I'm nervous that's what he'll want to do.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:37 am 
Offline
Worthy Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:34 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Westchester NY
My guess is the subfloor, esp since you have OSB vs. the recommend 3/4" ply. With OSB, you don't have good enough structure for the nails/staples to hold. The solid hardwood might have been able to tolerate it since nails longer on went through more of subfloor where as the staples/cleats/whatever were used were not long enough.

Also, when the solid hardwood was removed (w/ the nails, it probably weakened the subfloor.

Debbie Gartner, aka The Flooring Girl
http://TheFlooringGirl.com
Westchester County, NY


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:40 am 
Offline
Prized Contributor

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:45 pm
Posts: 3357
Location: Tucson AZ
mommyinzion wrote:

We 1/2" 2-ply engineered wood floor. The installer determined the moisture with his meter 3 days before installation began. .

The areas where there are squeaks, I can see the board move up and down as I push on it.

As far as the install goes, we acclimated the wood for 1 week prior to install. The moisture on the subfloor was 2% and the moisture in the wood was 3% a few days before install. -




A 2 ply engineered? Thats impossible. Who made this floor? I also don't believe this guys moisture test results. What meter and how many boxes did he check? Did he do the right conversion for species and OSB with his meter?

I also agree with Deb. :P He may have used a shorter fastener than he needed due to availability. Trigger pull or hammer gun?

Check the manufacturers installation requirements online. I see many stating only a 1 inch staple on these trigger pull guns which IMO is way too short, especially for OSB. Also check gauge of staple with what he used.

_________________
Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
IFCII Certified Inspector
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:34 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:08 pm
Posts: 1732
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
Quote:
A 2 ply engineered?


Kahrs makes a few. Not sure if it's available in the states anymore, but it's a glue down product only.

http://www.kahrs.com/en-GB/consumer/Pro ... ollection/

_________________
See the room scene gallery at Uptown Floors.

Uptown was created by your administrator, offering my high quality 3/4" engineered floors made in the USA. Unfinished and prefinished.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:25 pm 
Offline
New User

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm
Posts: 8
TheFlooringGirl wrote:
My guess is the subfloor, esp since you have OSB vs. the recommend 3/4" ply. With OSB, you don't have good enough structure for the nails/staples to hold. The solid hardwood might have been able to tolerate it since nails longer on went through more of subfloor where as the staples/cleats/whatever were used were not long enough.

Also, when the solid hardwood was removed (w/ the nails, it probably weakened the subfloor.

Debbie Gartner, aka The Flooring Girl
http://TheFlooringGirl.com
Westchester County, NY


Sorry, I'm wrong about the subfloor. I just checked with hubby and he said it's plywood. Sounds like the staples could still be too short, though.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:43 pm 
Offline
New User

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm
Posts: 8
floormeintucson wrote:
A 2 ply engineered? Thats impossible. Who made this floor? I also don't believe this guys moisture test results. What meter and how many boxes did he check? Did he do the right conversion for species and OSB with his meter?

I also agree with Deb. :P He may have used a shorter fastener than he needed due to availability. Trigger pull or hammer gun?

Check the manufacturers installation requirements online. I see many stating only a 1 inch staple on these trigger pull guns which IMO is way too short, especially for OSB. Also check gauge of staple with what he used.


Maybe I misunderstood the ply question. I thought you were asking about how thick the wood layer was, which I'm pretty sure is 2mm. I can't find any documentation about the ply, but when I look at the side, it looks like 3 layers below the groove, 3 layers in the groove, and then at least 1 above the grove before the wood layer. So that would be at least 7 ply, right?

The floor is made by Tecsun, Handscraped Maple 5" Tobacco
http://www.tecsunflooring.com/index.php ... le-tobacco

The day that I brought the floor home, I unpacked all of the boxes in the room they were to be installed in. I stacked all of the boards lincoln log style, to allow airflow, and thermostat was running. He tested a few boards. I don't know what meter he used. I had just read that we wanted under a 2% variance from the wood and the subfloor and since he was only coming up with a 1% variance 3 days before install, I figured we were good. Especially since the floor was in the home for a week, which from what I read was more than usual for engineered.

I know for sure he used a trigger gun. And I was wrong about OSB. Hubby told me it's plywood not OSB.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:17 pm 
Offline
Prized Contributor

Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:05 pm
Posts: 1391
Location: Knoxville,Tn
take two shorty pieces and hold them up to eye level and look at how the tongue and groove align. If the tongue is flopping around or you have a gap below the tongue that may be part of your problem. floors should have a snug fit, loose fitting t&g will squeak when you walk across it even if its nailed correctly. Busting the tongues off will also make it squeak, using the wrong size fastener can also add to the issue.

_________________
Kevin Daniel
Heartland Hardwood Flooring
Knoxville, Tn
www.HeartlandHardwoodFlooring.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:38 pm 
Offline
Prized Contributor

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:45 pm
Posts: 3357
Location: Tucson AZ
Ken Fisher wrote:
Quote:
A 2 ply engineered?


Kahrs makes a few. Not sure if it's available in the states anymore, but it's a glue down product only.

http://www.kahrs.com/en-GB/consumer/Pro ... ollection/


Well I'll be. Does not make sense to me but learn something new all the time eh?

ANSI/HPVA HP-1-2009. American National Standard for Hardwood and Decorative Plywood, states:
- 3.10 CONSTRUCTION:
Plywood panels shall be constructed with with an odd number of plies. An even number of plies is not prohibited in constructions that contain layers of adjacent veneers with parallel grain, and in two-ply door skin constructions.

_________________
Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
IFCII Certified Inspector
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crackling & squeaking floor after new install
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:20 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:36 pm
Posts: 705
"The floor is made by Tecsun, Handscraped Maple 5" Tobacco
http://www.tecsunflooring.com/index.php ... le-tobacco
- See more at: crackling-squeaking-floor-after-new-install-t10961.html#sthash.MNthiiTb.dpuf"


there in lies the answer, as I mentioned and others as well..the fasteners although rated for the install are not long enough..usually one inch..

this means you are relying in a half inch hold in OSB in a 5 inch wide board.

insufficient in my book..are you sure the 5" is rated for a staple down install?

OSB is known for nail hold issues which goes to my original thought not to eliminate it form the equation as of yet.

I would venture further and suggest that the proper install would have been a glue/staple combination and more likely is the preferred/recommended manufacturer method...

_________________
James Hernandez
All Flortec Inc, West Milford, NJ

http://www.flortechardwood.net


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO