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 Post subject: Curing Times
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:21 pm 
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About to sand and refinish 3,000 sf of walnut (posted previously re: finish problems and white line). Meeting tomorrow with two different finishers to whom we were referred. Depending upon their respective preferences and experience, the two product lines under consideration are Dura Seal oil poly (3 coats) or Bona's line with a top coat of Traffic.

With respect to proper curing periods and realizing that oil will be longer than water-based, what should we expect for each product in terms of being able to move in furniture and rugs and resume living in the house?

Our other concern between oil vs. water is the difference in color of the walnut. We did not stain and are pleased with the color - need to refinish because of adhesion issues - and have heard water-based products may result in greying or a cloudy effect. Any comments or experiences with dark floors and these products?

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:02 pm 
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
The curing time for oil based finishes is about 3-4 weeks. We have clients who move their furniture back onto the floor much sooner all the time. If you use oil I would suggest waiting at least a week to move furniture back onto the floor and even then be careful. Then wait a month before putting any rugs down. I have seen the cloudy look with waterbased finishes that we have went to fix, but none on jobs I have done. We use Bona traffic and it has never been an issue for us. I would consider using Bona drifast sealer and 3 coatings of traffic if the curing times might be an issue for you. It may cost a bit more than the bids you received, but it will be worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:01 am 
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Location: S.E. Michigan, USA
Quote:
Our other concern between oil vs. water is the difference in color of the walnut. We did not stain and are pleased with the color - need to refinish because of adhesion issues - and have heard water-based products may result in greying or a cloudy effect. Any comments or experiences with dark floors and these products?

Thanks again.


Celeste,
I personally don't care for the look of water-based products on dark floors. The film is white, and scratches especially show up as white. Water-based is great for maple, white stained oak, and other light floors, but for dark floors OMU or acid-cured urethanes look better IMO. Better yet how about a natural oil like Rubio Monocoat or Pallman with now film on top of the wood.

Sherrie VandePutte
Ortonville, MI


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:01 pm 
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Location: Great Falls, MT
greenfloorgoddess wrote:
Quote:
Our other concern between oil vs. water is the difference in color of the walnut. We did not stain and are pleased with the color - need to refinish because of adhesion issues - and have heard water-based products may result in greying or a cloudy effect. Any comments or experiences with dark floors and these products?

Thanks again.


Celeste,
I personally don't care for the look of water-based products on dark floors. The film is white, and scratches especially show up as white. Water-based is great for maple, white stained oak, and other light floors, but for dark floors OMU or acid-cured urethanes look better IMO. Better yet how about a natural oil like Rubio Monocoat or Pallman with now film on top of the wood.

Sherrie VandePutte
Ortonville, MI

We use waterbase finish exclusively and have never had any clouding or greying. The only time I have seen scratches in finish that appeared white are on prefinished floor using ceramic or aluminum oxide finish. As far as the look of the floor you should get samples from each contractor and decide which you prefer as there is a difference. Not sure what you mean by white film?


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Location: Knoxville,Tn
Its more to do with the sealer than than the top coats if were are talking color. I will say this, waterborne sealers look like all out ass on walnut floors. Water top coats not so big a deal but the sealer makes a HUGE difference in the overall appearance. I would suggest bona's drifast sealer followed by three coats of traffic. Btw did you ever figure out whats the cause was originally?

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Heartland Hardwood Flooring
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www.HeartlandHardwoodFlooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:34 pm 
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We do use the emulsion finish as a sealer so it does give some color but we have used the other sealers as well and had no ill results.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Thanks for the additional comments. The painters are here now covering and taping every square inch and the place looks like a haz-mat zone! Work starts Monday.

The General Contractor - working with the wood supplier - has brought in another finish contractor to correct the problem. This new finisher has worked with our G.C. before and not had any issues. We've met and he's assured us that he's going to take care of it; while also identifying putty or filler they used was not the best or correct, either. The G.C. / supplier (who hired the first crew) are bearing the total cost and responsibility for everything, so this is not a typical 'bid' situation but rather of new construction / warranty work. We do not want to add another variable such as an unknown finisher or product considering future warranties under the G.C.

This finisher recommended three coats of oil-based poly. While we talked about Traffic, which he has used, he says he's never had any problems with the DuraSeal products. We have moved out and will not move any furniture in until 3 weeks after the final coat.

Many of the opinions gathered by all parties tend to point to the shellac and the fact the original finisher was trying to rush things. (Our job site was located nearly two hours away so they probably did not want to make too many trips.) In the meantime, we all have sought many opinions, did research, and had a couple of other finishers out to look at the floors. Almost every time we or our superintendent said 'shellac', the collective responses were -- let's say -- not positive or printable.

Again, thanks for your thoughts and advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:32 am 
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I know this thread is old, but will throw in 2 cents.

I know there are many problems associated with using stearated shellac as a sealer. But.....the non-stearated (pure...or dewaxed) kind,....we have used it from time to time for around 20 years,....and I've never had a problem...or heard of a problem...using it. Am I under the false assumption that as long as the shellac is not the stearated type,..there will never be a problem?

One caveat. We do not use waterborne finishes, and we do not stain,...we advise our customers to find a wood that is the color they want without staining.

There was a time when they first "pushed" waterborne finishes,...and we always found that shellac thinner would melt them...which means wine stains are there to stay. So we stayed away. Maybe they've actually gotten past that problem nowadays. I'm older nowadays, and we only do a few floors each year. So I am not in the thick of it like a lot of guys are...especially the guys that are bidding where price is the competition rather than quality. If we are asked to look at a job and I can see that they are price shopping (which is getting to be the case nearly all the time)...we usually decline even bidding the job.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Times
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:32 am 
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Natural color in walnut will fade over time. The first color to fade will be the red part of the color. If you can find a light walnut stain color that you like the stain will help protect the wood colors from fading as fast. The poly-urethane will "amber/yellow" over time, as well as the wood when it fades.
The water-based poly will not have the deep, rich look of a solvent based finish.
The wood will not have the warm red glow, and staining will help to look like a solvent based finish color. The two part water-based finishes hold up much better to household chemicals, but they cost more. It's worth the price.
Personally, I like the conversion varnish finish which has qualities of the solvent based finishes and "amber/yellow" less than poly, like the water-based finishes.
You need to have a sample made up. Take your time to decide. When it comes time to re-coat your floor, in 5-10 years, you will be able to add life to your finish if you get a quality finish in the first place with another coat, if you do not put anything on the floor that would prevent another coat of finish from adhering.


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