Hello all,

Great forum! I have just purchased 3/4"X5" Heartpine prefinished random length flooring and plan on doing our whole house (1,850 sf). I am considering doing the bathrooms also - but jury still out on that. Sounds like maybe that isn't the best idea?

Subfloor is 2"X6" T&G cardecking (yes, full 2X6) and over the top of that is 1/2" particleboard underlayment throughout.

My questions are:

1). From reading, I assume I really have no other choice but to remove the 1/2" PB underlayment . If that is true, can I then lay my new 3/4" floor right down over the 2"X6" cardecking with some #15 felt in between? The guy at Lumber Liquidators said people go right over the top of particleboard underlayment all the time with no problems, but I read the contrary here . If I have to pull up the underlayment I will, just wondering if laying directly over the 2X6 subfloor afterwards is OK.

2). I will be purchasing a Bostitch pneumatic gun. Is there any reason that I shouldn't go with staples for wide plank pine? If staples are OK, would you recommend 2" ?

3). Anyone have a good online source (price) for ordering a new Bostitch nailer/stapler? I can find them at the Lowes/Home Depots, but was hoping there would be a cheaper outlet - other than used stuff on EBay.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

1a. The particle board must come out, It will not hold staples and or nails (considering if you use 1.5 inch staples 3/4 of that staple will be in the board itself, and 3/4 or less in the particle board....) Even with a two inch staple its still 1/4 or less into the actual subfloor (cardecking)

1b. 1x6 pine boards are a suitable subfloor, 2 inch would be better (IMO) Ive never run into 2x6 T&G before, I have seen 2x6 non tounge and groove. Im confident it is suitable.

1c. you could lay 1/2 plywood down over the 2x6 cardecking (only if it wasnt the height you wanted the floor to be) but I dont think it is needed.

1d. Lumerliquidators isnt in the business of installing floors, so I would advise against thier advice Did you get the wood from them? Ive just heard too many horror storys about that place.

2. Staples are fine, they work well in pine, Cleats work also but I prefer staples in pine oak and a few other select species.

2b. I would use 2 inch staples (IMO the only time to use the 1.5 inch ones is if you are going over cement with only 3/4 or 5/8 underlayment. so you dont hit the concrete)

2c. Anything 4 inches and above I glue and staple, I believe nofma's standards are 5 inches and above. (if you were to glue and staple it, you wouldnt use the paper)

3. Used may be one of your better options, the guns are close to 500 each new, you can get a knock off for about half the cost but I have no experience with any of those, or you could buy a new one and then sell it yourself. Craigslist maybe?

Exquisite:

Thanks for the quick and thorough reply. I will take your advice and include pulling up the underlayment. My builder was one of the old school guys with regard to the 2X6 subfloor. Agreed, it's not seen often, but he was a firm believer in a solid floor.... house was built in 1987 - maybe he doesn't still use the 2X6, but glad he did on our place.

I would like your honest cut on whether or not to go with the pine in our bathrooms. We don't have the small child bath water problems, and would like to put the pine in the bathrooms, but if it really isn't a good idea, can you mention some issues we may run into? We live near Seattle, so humidity isn't a problem in the bathrooms other than what occurs during showering.... have good fans, so the mirrors don't even fog. But, I would still like to hear the issues.

My wife would really like the pine in the bathrooms, so I would like to be able to tell her why we should really be going with another flooring option if you feel it isn't a wise choice.

Thanks for your information!!!

Me personally, I prefer tile in bathrooms, laundry rooms, and kitchens (there is water in those rooms, and lots of it) In and out of the tub, water on the floor, thats going to seep into those bevels on the prefinished boards and trouble may arise, laundry room same case. The kitchen too, plus pine is SOFT, drop a fork, knife ect, its gonna leave a dent. I hate to say to ever put anything in your home but wood, but it definatley has its place. Although I do install it/see it installed in all of the rooms I listed on a daily basis.


But bottom line, if YOU want wood in the bathroom ect, go for it, just keep it dry

Jay,

Thanks so much for your answers.... I really appreciate your opinions. I will talk it over with the wife and then start in on tearing up some underlayment!!!!

Have a great day!

No problem, good luck with the project, Dont forget the most important tool, Doans back pain medicne, 1850 feet youre gonna need it

Jay,

Good idea with the Doans.... I'm gonna be picking up some adult beverages too!!!!

Thanks again for your help!

Don

About your 2 x 6 subfloor. What is the distance between the floor joists? Here in CA, we used to have 1.5" x 5" solid T&G fir "decking" installed as subflooring over girders/beams 4' OC. It wasn't that great and hasn't been used since the 60's here. These kind of subfloors can by bouncy between the beams, so you'll want to check for that. Also, it's fine to lay to pine plank over your 2 x 6 subfloor but you should not lay it parallel to the direction of the subflooring. It will need to be installed at a diagonal or perpendicular. Gluing as well as nailing, as Jay mentioned, is advised if over 4" in width. You will still need to have to earth covered with polyethylene as a vapor retarder if your home is built over a crawl space. Subfloor needs to be dry at around 10% MC.

Gary,

I'm 2' on center for the joists, so it's pretty darn sturdy. I have plastic down already underneath the house, but it can get pretty darn wet here. I was wondering.... to ensure it's a dry installation, would it be OK to NOT glue it and use the 15# felt instead? Maybe space my nail points a little closer?

Thanks in advance....

Don

The problem with not glueing, is even if you put staples closer together its only supporting the front (width wise) of the board, The problem is the boards are too wide, You will have the 1st inch of the board stapled to the floor, the next 3 inches are just there, and the final inch (more like 1/4-1/2 inch locked into the previous boards tounge.

Is it wet in the basement? or just wet in your area. Id do some testing with a hydrogymoter(sp?) and check the relitive humidity in the rooms and also in the basement/crawl space. Once you have some numbers you can better asses how to go about the instalation (which glues will help, plastic, extra plastic layers ect.)

Jay,

Just wet in our area in general. This house is a rambler, so there's no basement in the picture.

When you guys glue down also, so you just do a small squigly line on the subfloor before setting and nailing, or do you put it down on the back side of each board before you set it in.

Also, what is the recommended adhesive?

Man, first I'm tearing out all my underlayment, now glue! Buddy, this is becoming a project to say the least!!!!!!

Thanks for your input though.... I'm one of these guys that likes to do it right the first time!

Don

I thought they stopped building those "Ramblers" back in the 60's. Terrible cars!

Does it get wet, standing water or muddy ground, under your home? If so, that's a problem. You must deal with any moisture UNDER the house. So check that. It must be dry year round UNDER THE HOUSE. Moisture test the subfloor. It needs to be within 2% of the flooring for plank.

Very cool.... will do. Thanks again for all your advice.... also, looks like a Demo Dawg may be the ticket for taking up all that underlayment. Do you folks have any experience with any other tools or techniques that would be helpful with prying that all up?

Gluing is not all that fun as it seems.....here in new england glue for solid hardwood flooring available to pros goes for about $100/4 gallons.....also you must check with its recommendations for the trowel to be used and so forth.....if you wanna do it right the first time this is the way (combined with staples)....also be weary of lumber purchased @ L.L......those places are popping up all over the country and they are putting a strain on people's homes, installers and vendors that sell quality wood flooring.EX=Hoboken