I don't know whether, in general, you do or don't give out bad advice. I just know you don't seem to have read my posts very carefully. Which is quite plain when you go off on me "assuming" stuff. I'm asking questions, not assuming much of anything. And I'm expressing frustration at the conflicting "advice" I'm getting.

sorry for gettting hot with you . The point I was trying to make is that wood floors are hydroscopic, they act much like a sponge. They will gain or loose moisture untill an equalirium is met to match their enviroment. When the boards, and it doesnt matter if they are 1/2" or 22" solid or eng ,they all will gain and loose mosture through out the differnt seasons of the year, which in turn will cause the floor to contract or expand accordingly.
what also could be going on is that when you open the windows at night you let the cool damp air in the house. During the day when its closed up the temp rises and poof the wood floor pulls in the moisture. aka green house effect. Did anyone of the contactors put a pin meter in the floor? Is the cupping more apparent in a particular time of year? Is it cupped to the point where the high edges are wearing off first?

It's pretty dry here (Ashland, OR, 2,000'), especially in summer. Last time I checked the weather report, humidity outside was 17%, so even when we do open windows at night, there's no "damp" air coming in. The little hygrometer I've got (which I recently wrapped with a very damp rag, to check, and it read 94%, so it's maybe 3-5 points low?), I'm measuring 36% inside the house, 34% underneath, in the unfinished, unfloored basement. (There's 6m poly on the ground, partially.)

I didn't live here the past 5 years, so don't know the whole history personally, but my girlfriend said the gaps appeared the first winter. She's guessing floor was installed in Feb of that year, and she bought house in June. She wasn't aware when the cupping happened, particularly, but in the 6 months I've been here, the gaps/cupping have looked about the same. MAYBE more cupping now than in Feb/Mar. And it IS cupping, even though I originally thought it was just swelling at the edges. If you get down on the floor and put a metal straightedge across each "plank", you can see a definate arc, rather than just swelling on the edges.

If I thought it might really solve the problem, I'd consider a humidifier, but reluctantly. As I said earlier, replenishing 10+ gallons a day in a humidifier doesn't sound reasonable to me.

If/when I have it to do over, I'll put tile in the kitchen, and any wood areas will be 3/4" hardwood.

Perry, (Floorguy)
Bringing Traffic to the site

So let me get this straight. This is an AWARD floor. Engineered longstrip, correct? Was this floor installed as a floating floor with the volara foam under it? Was it nailed down? Glued down? How old? Five yrs. you say? I'd guess that it may have something to do with how the panels were attached. Award used to use glue (everyone used to) then switched to the mechanical locking system I am so sceptical of. If glue was used in the older, glue the panels together system, then perhaps not enough was used or it was done badly. Can't comment on whether the locking T&G system was employed and is functioning properly. That would need to be inspected. If cupping is present, perhaps too much liquid is being used to clean the floors and getting in the gaps between the planks. Just my thoughts on the problem.

Award maple, glued down, and therefore assume planks not glued together at T&G. Girlfriend has NEVER wet mopped it; she uses stuff recommended by Award, lightly sprayed on a cloth, and rubbed on hands & knees. (I asked Award rep if wet mopping, to get moisture in top of planks, would be a good idea, and he said no, the water would get in gaps and cause discoloration.)

I pulled heat register, and T&G is NOT locking type.

Ray, every cupped floor I have inspected that was not a result of compression set, the bottom of the boards were touching. Some enough to be buckled. The tops had gaps.

The boards are cupped also...still. Not just gapped. Or did you just miss that part of the equation?


Take 2 boards with square sides. Make them both cup. Push them up against each other and tell me the bottoms don't touch first and the tops don't have a gap.

Perry,
Whatever.........
you are right...

Perry Directing Traffic. Thank you Perry.

First of all, if summer humidity here averages less than 20%, do you really think it's going to drop A GREAT DEAL when heat is turned on in winter, especially in a area not noted for COLD winters?

Two: of course wood expands and contracts w/ changes in moisture level, but this is 3-ply flooring, and the gapping is quite significant. And it does not change summer to winter to summer.

Three: the "slight cupping" you may envision is not so slight; every one who visits wonders "what's wrong with the floor"?

Four: I assume you meant humidifier, not dehumidifier? Or, is one supposed to use the former in the summer and the latter in the winter?

Five: did you pay no attention to my humidity readings upstairs and in basement?

If this is so "simple" why does everyone disagree, from Award rep on around?

I say the floor swelled and compression set at some time in it's life.

Not it has dried out.


The only sure fire way to find out, is get out the moisture meter and see if the bottom of the board has more moisture content then the top. If it is consistent throughout the board, it is compression set.


Whatever? I thought you liked a little friendly debate, Ray.

I understand fully what your saying Ray, and it can happen. It is just rare to be able to pull the that much moisture that quickly, and have it still cupped over 5 years, unless it is compression set, or has a moisture source below the wood. Would you not feel the wood is acclimated enough and come to equilibrium in 5 year? I would hate to have to tell a client... "maam, this wood has to stat here in this room for 5 years to acclimate.

This is a wide plank 3 strip floor, engineered of unknown wear layer. I agree lack of acclimation to the normal living conditions, and not maintaining those levels throughout the year. Some how this floor compression set! Now it is gapped. Or the subfloor is wet somehow. I'm not there to inspect in person is the main problem.


But as a note: You can acclimate a floor down to the 20% humidity level or less and install it, as long as that humidity is maintained, it may want to crack and check, but it isn't going to gap or cup. 4.6% - 4.2% for 20%rH is on the dry side, but as long as that is maintained, it should not cup, buckle or gap.

Come on Ray, don't let me down. Educate me! I'm asking for it!! Both barrels!!

From a non-installer, layman's point a view, the bickering in the posts between Ray and Perry is getting VERY old, VERY fast. People come here asking intelligent questions, and their threads are filled with you two thread jacking,

Thanks for deleting your self discrediting views, they really did make you look bad.


EDIT: this post made no sense since Ray went on a deleting spree.

Not going to happen here fellas. Behave!

Aw come on Ken, you know we can keep it clean, as we have above.

We are debating. I wouldn't even call it arguing.


It surely isn't like a William Mear or Stephen Perrera, attack fest.


I'm actually learning off of it. He made me pull out my NWFA manual several times during this little debate, just to be sure.