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 Post subject: Engineered floor - installation damage
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:09 pm 
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We had about 600-700 square feet of White Oak engineered floor (LM Flooring Kendal Plank) installed by a professional installer employed by a very reputable local firm. The floor is a microbevel, 5" wide plank of varying lengths and having 8 plys. The floor was nailed in place using a compressed air nailer.
The installation looks great at a glance but upon close examination, there appears to be quite a few instances of chipped ends (small, visible cracks and turned up edges) on the individual pieces (at least 15) where the boards meet end to end. These are sharp and enough to tear a nylon stocking on.
There are also 2 locations where the upper oak surface has delaminated from the underlying plys. One spot is about 10" x 1" and the other 1" x 1", both occuring along the length wise side of the board.
Along with the above, there are 5 -10 places where the edge of individual boards (Aluminum Oxide finish and wood) are crushed and splintered somewhat where one could easily get a sliver from sliding a bare foot along the surface.
Would any one have experience with how to deal with this and what I should expect from the company to correct the damage? This was an $11000 Can installation.
On a sheet provided by the manufacturer of the wood, there is a note that reads: This warranty will not cover any floor with damage caused by improper installation.
There is normally a 25 year warranty on the floor from the manufacturer. The local company provides a one year installation guarantee. We would prefer not to have a repaired floor that has been patched up to look presentable.
Thanks for any comments.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:55 pm 
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Location: Antioch, CA. 94509
My standard resonse to customers who have a problem with the floors they just had installed is to call the salesperson who sold them the floor. Then CALMLY ask your questions. Avoid being confrontational at this point. You are just trying to get some questions answered right now, not fix blame. Point out all your concerns and ask the salesperson if those flaws are manufacturing flaws or installation flaws. Odds are, if it is the reputable shop you say it is, they will arrange a repair at no cost to you. However, hold off on judgement of the repair till it is completed.
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We would prefer not to have a repaired floor that has been patched up to look presentable.

Just because a floor has been repaired doesn't mean it will look like it. It should make it look better than before, not worse. Since the floor was a nailed down prefinished plank, the repairs should be quite easy to do.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:57 am 
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A good repair cannot be seen, we do it for our clients all the time. Many times there will be a board or two that a client just does not like (color, grain or what have you) after an install and we cut them out for the client and install a new one. It is very, routine and if done properly is indistinguishable from the rest of the floor.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:52 pm 
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Thank you for the replies. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. The news is encouraging!


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 Post subject: Follow up - New floor to be installed!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:13 pm 
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The engineered wood floor we had installed, about 700 sq. ft. is being torn out and replaced due to too many defects in installation. The company is standing 100% behind their work. I am more than impressed.
We have been encouraged to select flooring from a different manufacturer and I think we are going to install a solid wood this time.
The old floor is 1/2" in thickness and unfortunately I custom fit all door openings on closet doors to fit tight so there would be very small gaps in height after installation. This seemed like a good idea and turned out really well, but, if we go to a thicker, 3/4" floor, I will have to move some headers and re-trim both upstairs 6 foot closets.
The company has also offered to pay my labor to remove and re-install my old freshly installed baseboards.

Would anyone have any recommendations as to go prefinished or finish in house. I ask this because we have a 21 pound Miniature Schnauser so a hard finish sems a really good idea. The Aluminum, Oxide finish on the floor to be removed showed no scratching from the dog over a one month period. She did her best but failed miserably, not through lack of her trying.
FYI, the floor we are having removed is a micro-bevel White Oak finished in a dark Honey Tone.

Thanks for any recommendations/thoughts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:24 pm 
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The decision to go with a finished in place floor or a factory finished floor really depends on your priorities. A finished in place floor will have that seamless appearance and classic look that few prefinished floors can duplicate. If you choose the very best floor finish available ( Traffic or an acid-cured Swedish finish), the finish in place floors should be very durable. The biggest downside to finish in place floors is the time and exspense involved. It will take at least twice as long and probably cost more. You will not have access to this area during the sanding and finishing process. Another consideration is the expertise involved in sanding and finishing a wood floor. A high level of skill and knowledge, along with good tools, is required and that doesn't come cheap or easy. The same floor can look fantastic or absolutely horrible depending on the skill of the finisher. But even the very best finisher will be hard pressed to duplicate the quality appearance of a good factory finished floor due to the highly controlled environment in the factory. In the end, there is no right or wrong answer. You need to decide which is best for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:13 pm 
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Wow now that doesnt happen very often. There must have been more that they saw wrong that you first described. Not many companies are going to kick an 11k instalation to the curb over 20 25 boards without at least attempting to repair the floor.

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Heartland Hardwood Flooring
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 Post subject: Engineered floor - damage on installation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:11 pm 
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The wood we had installed was microbeveled only on the sides, not the ends. I appears the installer was a bit over zealous in "tapping" them into place and chipped the finish badly (30 or so ends), badly split open the hardwood layer on the side edges in 7-8 areas from "tapping" them in overly enthusiastically. There are delaminations of the white oak top surface on two of the boards, one about 1" square on one end and the other 1" by 12", shaped like a banana along one side. Many instances of overage (about business card thickness), 3 instances of almost credit card width gaps on ends between boards, not gluing in the final narrow board that was about 1/2" wide all along the window side in both bedrooms, resulting in a gap along the rest of the floor when baseboards were installed, installing stair nose lifted on one end so baseboard looks like h-ll... the list goes on.
Looked reasonable from standing height but when the sun shone and you lookd more closely, not good.
The problem is, I am not very pleased with having to completely remove all furniture, baseboard, closet systems, etc. I will be paid for my efforts here but it is a lot of work and no doubt will tie up the house for at least another month. We have been "installing floor" tiles, carpet, hardwood for over 2 months so far. 3-4 months is getting tedious.
A free replacement is very nice but...

Also concerned about whether to go solid (1/2" or 3/4"), acrylic impregnated, matte or shiny. The entry to the house is a bi-level so you look straight down the floor as you come up the stairs. Any uneven parts really show. I pulled 3/4 of the living room/dining room (14' x 24') floor right down to the joists to trim down crowned ares. If we put in 3/4", I will have to redo the base trim on the stairway railing as it was built to accomodate fitting of carpet and would be too low. The 1/2" engineered wood fit the existing trim perfectly. Tile in the kitchen is flush with the 1/2" engineered wood. 3/4" will have to be beveled at the entry and it is not a straight cut, it has a curve.
Bedroom closets were custom fitted to reduce gaps at top and bottom to fit 1/2" wood.

I am tempted to pull it all apart, redo the stairs, closets, etc. to fit 3/4".
Is it worth it? Will 1/2" solid be just as good? Really not sure if I want engineered wood again after this past experience. No microbevel on the ends really show up overage and seems very prone to damage on installaton. I do not want wide bevels, sand in place would be very difficult as we have a floating hearth in the living room that would be very difficult to sand/finish, being only 8 1/2" off the floor, 8' long and 16" deep.
I am not sure if I trust the glued laminations and the matte finish on the 5" planks makes the floor resemble the finish on laminate. I would prefer a quality wood floor to look like a quality wood floor.
There is nothing wrong with laminate. It has its place, looks great, and is very reasonably priced.... but it is not wood.

Sorry for the rant.


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 Post subject: Continued...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:17 pm 
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Can anyone highly recommend a manufacturer(s) of excellent quality 1/2" White Oak, dark honey finish, quality milled so virtually no overage, 2 1/2" to 3 1/4" wide, microbevel on 4 sides, Aluminum Oxide or Impregnated Acrylic (matte/) finish? I do not want to have to do this over again, if possible.
Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:30 pm 
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Al:

That's going to a tough bill to fill. I can't think of any manufacturer offering such in a solid. Prefinished white oak isn't very common either. Adding excellent quality in the same breath is another wild card. I don't see any reason to shy away from engineered because of the obvious installer shortcomings. It also sounds like the LM had to be beat together to get it tight. Some engineered hardwoods go together much easier than others, but you'll pay more.

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 Post subject: ongoing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:44 pm 
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Actually the LM just slides quite easily together, a good, snug fit. It looked like a good product. I do not know why one would whack it in so hard. I assembled several lengths on the floor and it went together with minor effort.
Is there a carpet with wood look, matte finish and can be refinished multiple times :-)
I am going to have a long talk with a few of the local hardwood outlets to see what I can come up with. One would think, for the price of this stuff, that quality would be a given. NOT!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:33 am 
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Had a mannington andino cherry job (1200 sq ft) that had splinters on the edges in a few places, was also sold as a square edge floor when it really was micro bevel. Manufacturer paid for it to be torn up and replaced with another product. Made me sick cutting out that much nice wood but customer comes first. Manufacturer also paid for the labor costs.


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