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 Post subject: Fabulon finish problem
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:42 pm 
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We installed 1200 sf of Owens plankfloor 3" red oak and finished with 4 coats of Fabulon in semi gloss approximately 4 months ago. We are very happy with the finish as far as durablility- but today I discovered that the finish is delaminating in between boards and at the ends of boards in several places. Not everywhere, by a long shot, but enough to make me worried. I don't know how else to describe what is happening. The finish is not cracked on the surface, but I can see an air gap under the finish along the seam between the planks. It's as if the finish is not flexing with the wood, therefore it has separated from it along the seams. I don't know what has caused this. We have an additional 800 sf to install and finish on the same floor which will adjoin the previous install in a doorway. We wanted to still have use of the house by doing the install in stages.

Have you ever seen this problem and what should we do at this point? Will this eventually chip and peel.? I'm wondering if we should sand and finish it all once the last section goes in. I'm trying to avoid that if possible since cabinets, kitchen island and baseboard trim have since been installed.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:30 pm 
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There's more than one possibility as to why you are seeing delamination. IF you can explain how you sanded and applied the finish , that might shed light on your situation.Pictures are very helpful as well.

As far as fixes,it's almost impossible to get the urethane to re-attach itself. With some woodworking projects, it's possible to get super glue under the lifted area and prevent the lifting from getting any worse. But on a massive wood floor, this could be a daunting task.

I'm worried that the flooring might not have been acclimated to the house and is shrinking. But I'll wait to see if you have any more info you can share

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http://www.addwoodfloors.com


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:48 am 
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Thanks for your answer. First, I was wrong on the date we installed. It was 8 months ago, we finished the kitchen 4 months ago. When the flooring was delivered we let it acclimate for over a month. We took moisture readings for the subfloor and the flooring and they were within 1-2 of each other. I think they were 8-9 if I remember and humidity in the house was at 35.

There is no gapping between boards at all and the finish is a solid sheet with the adhesion problem at the seams. Mostly the end seams are affected, but some seams between the boards in high traffic areas. I remember my husband complained that the end seams had a too much play in the tongue and groove and he didn't know why they were made that way.

We used a USand to sand initially. The flooring was stained with bona drifast stain in natural, we followed the time for letting it dry and it was dry before we moved on the the finish but within the time it said to apply. The first coat I think we sanded with a pole sander. Next coats were sanded with a maroon pad.

Originally we were going to use Bona Traffic but couldn't get the stain to look how we wanted. The finish supplier suggested we use Fabulon. We love the look we got but it is disappointing that it is failing. I think we are in for a sand and recoat. I guees it just depends on whether we want to suffer through that now or later.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:07 pm 
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If you could post a photo, that would make it easier to tell what is going on.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 pm 
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Okay I hope this works. 99% of the floor looks like this:

Image

Image

Here is an example of the problem, at an end seam:

Image

Along a seam between boards:
Image

Here is a link to the album in case that didn't work, more photos there.
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=19177363&uid=9582009&members=1

Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:35 pm 
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Well, you seem to have a good idea of what you were supposed to do. But it seems there's an adhesion problem. If you were to pick out one of the finish flakes, you'd be able to see if the entire flake is composed of all the layers of urethane. Once the flake is lifted, you'd be looking at the stained wood only.

One other thing may be expansion of the boards. It seems like the edges of the boards are expanding and exerting pressure on the finish.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to have to re sand to completely correct the problem. I've never seen a floor do this and been corrected with buffing techniques only.

A few scattered peels can sometimes be stopped from getting worse by using super glue . Super glue / crazy glue actually works quite well as far as sticking to urethane but since there's a fundamental adhesion problem , I don't think that the super glue trick will completely solve your problem.

But the general idea is to use a pipette or similar needle like applicator to shoot the crazy glue under the sliver of urethane, then use something besides your fingers to apply a little pressure to the top of the flake so the glue can set.

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 Post subject: Re: Fabulon finish problem
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 10:12 pm 
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justamere11 wrote:
We installed 1200 sf of Owens plankfloor 3" red oak and finished with 4 coats of Fabulon in semi gloss approximately 4 months ago. We are very happy with the finish as far as durablility- but today I discovered that the finish is delaminating in between boards and at the ends of boards in several places. Not everywhere, by a long shot, but enough to make me worried. I don't know how else to describe what is happening. The finish is not cracked on the surface, but I can see an air gap under the finish along the seam between the planks. It's as if the finish is not flexing with the wood, therefore it has separated from it along the seams. I don't know what has caused this. We have an additional 800 sf to install and finish on the same floor which will adjoin the previous install in a doorway. We wanted to still have use of the house by doing the install in stages.

Have you ever seen this problem and what should we do at this point? Will this eventually chip and peel.? I'm wondering if we should sand and finish it all once the last section goes in. I'm trying to avoid that if possible since cabinets, kitchen island and baseboard trim have since been installed.


Hello-

Is it waterbased Fabulon? Pardon my very late reply but in your post "4 months ago" would have been January right? So in winter then. How cold does it get in your neck of the woods? Does it get really really cold or at least at or below freezing? Do plumbing pipes ever freeze and break out there? My point is floor finishes are often stored in where houses (*edit google spell check put whOrehouses-lmao- had to fix)-and other non temp controlled environments- if the finish froze at some point- it could have altered its bonding ability- I have read about this- a waterbased wood finish freezing and then not performing as good and/or not bonding correctly- at least one published woodworking book (see pic) as well as sales reps, other contractors etc have also stated- do not let waterbase finish freeze if possible.
From Hardwood Floors Magazine online article: "Troubleshoot Wood Floor Finishes"

"Avoiding Trouble

The best problem solution is problem prevention. Here are a few precautions that will help contractors keep finish trouble from their floors.

Protect containers of finish from extreme temperatures. In particular, water-based finishes may be susceptible to freezing. Some manufacturers will specify that their products can perform properly after a certain number of freeze-thaw cycles, but the best product performance will come from finishes that have been maintained at a moderate temperature.
Maintain proper job-site conditions. Temperature and humidity should be within the recommended range, or application procedures should be adjusted to account for conditions. For example, extremely hot, dry conditions may cause finishes to dry too quickly. In such cases, approved retarders can be used to slow the drying process. Similarly, cold and humid conditions may cause finishes to dry more slowly — requiring that you allow more time before applying subsequent coats. The job site should also be kept as clean as possible to keep dust and dirt from contaminating the finish.
Document your jobs. This will help maximize quality control and — in the event a problem does occur — make resolution of the problem more efficient. You’ll want to note job-site conditions (temperature and humidity, as well as whether heating or air conditioning systems were operating);the products used and the batch numbers; and the floor-preparation and application methods employed.
The best advice in all cases is to carefully follow manufacturers’ application directions, including spread rates and recommended applicators. Finishes are formulated in many different ways, and an application for one will not necessarily produce good results with another."

Image


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