We had Select & Better white Oak installed. It looked a little patchy before finishing, but we thought the stain would even it out. Once stained, it was not at all what we expected. Although, the certified inspector said that it meets grade, he also said there is "bruised" sapwood that is not taking the stain evenly and that is what is giving us the uneven look. However, because the grader couldn't see this 'condiditon' (as it can only be seen after staining) it meets grade. I am amazed that this is acceptable! It is throughout our floor. If you look down a board, the stain may have taken at the end, then it doesn't take, then the next section will take, etc....all on the same board. This has made the floor have light and dark patches, which looks mottled (my husband says, "like the middle of a muddy football field"). In addition, about 45% of the wood is very bright to bright sapwood (I know also within grade) but it also adds to the patchiness. My 16 year old came home and said, "mom I know what is wrong with our floors. My friends wood floors have an overall color. On ours you can see where each board stops and starts because they are all different." The last problem is the large amoung of color variation. We have the bleached looking sapwood, grayish pieces that look like my weathered deck wood, regular pieces, some red oak looking pieces and shades in between. I'm sick! It is approx. 2000 square feet of flooring! Has anyone ordered Select & Better flooring and had this problem? I thought by ordering the highest grade this manufacturer sells I wood get a nice traditional looking wood floor.

We're replacing the flooring and I want to know how to get a nice looking floor this time. What do I order if I want the floor to take a golden oak stain uniformly, little to no sapwood pieces, and it will be sanded on site?

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas that will further educate me.

KSD

Sounds like they sanded too fine, and burnished it before staining.

Resand with 80 grit, water pop, and stain.

Why replace the floor, when it needs a resand? Are you going to sell the existing wood, or burn it?

Perry's right. While the grade may not be to your liking, there are "tricks" to getting a floor to take a stain more uniformly. But keep in mind, not every board will look just like the one next to it. That is why one gets a wood floor, for the random color and graining. Also, the lighter the stain color, the less pigment is being applied to the wood and more of the natural variation will show through. Consider a heavy bodied stain that has lots of pigment but still will not be real dark. McCloskey's Tungseal stain in either Colonial Maple or Early American are not dark colors but impart lots of pigment into the wood. If the brand of "golden oak" stain is Minwax, that brand has very little pigment and you will see lots of the natural color variation of the wood. A resand is in order.

Or just tint a coat of polyurethane and be done with the whole thing.

blonde sapwood in white oak is not a defect it's part of the nature of the product. ditto on replacement, kinda of a wasted effort and a big waste of your money. select white oak if sanded and finished properly should be pretty uniform with stain. It will help to go a shade more brown, golden oak is not much color at all so it will show the natural wood varitions thru the stain every time. btw if you wanted every board to be uniform you probally need to look into a "clear" grade , which is above select and better grade, they probally would have had to order it and it would have been a buck a foot more but, now you know.

Thank you for your thoughts. I think between the contractor, the staining company he uses (good local company...has stained neighbors houses), and the new distributor that they think something IS wrong with the flooring because the contractor called and said they are coming in the morning to rip it up and he'll cover the cost of replacing it!?

The stain the company used was Minwax. I will ask them about different staining products. Is there a difference between using water based and oil based stains and poly on red or white oak? We read somewhere about the tanins in the white oak being affected by one or the other?

We will also look into the "clear" grade. We had called around a while ago and the local retailers were saying they didn't sell 'clear'. Maybe they meant they didn't stock it. It is not that I mind graining or variation, within reason. I have seen MANY beautiful hardwood floors (none looked like ours....even visitors, workmen, and neighbors were surprised that I'd ordered such a rustic looking floor!). About 50% of our floors were bright or bruised sapwood, along with other variations were just way too much.

This has been more than I would have ever expected. I'm still amazed that this bruising 'condition' that can only be seen after staining qualifies as 'on grade'. What other product is purchased with the ability to look totally different AFTER it is already in your home and then finished (in this case, stained)?

Thanks,
KSD

It would probably be a good idea to have them stain sections of the floor BEFORE it is sanded and finished but after it has been installed. I do this occassionally on certain types of jobs and floors. It will give you the truest idea of what the floor will really look like. It's better than staining up simple sample boards. It need not be a very large area. Then when you make your stain selection, the color samples are sanded off when the complete sanding process is started. I am not a fan of Minwax stains. They are inexpensive homeowner products marketed for the general public. I prefer stains used by pros, such as Dura Seal, Bona, and McCloskey's Tung Seal. Minwax dries poorly, IMO and is so thin that bleedback sometimes occurs. There are no quality waterbased stains for flooring. And we're talking stains here, NOT finishes, which are a different thing. And if the contractor is going to rip out and replace your floors, I am sure the distributor is picking up a big portion of that cost. No flooring contracting company can esaily afford to do that. You are probably better off with a "clear" grade. That will have the most uniform color naturally than any of the lesser grades. The NOFMA grading standards are the same as they always have been but to me, some mills' grading is shoddy and what is supposed to be select and better contains wood that is clearly #1 or #2. I see it occassionally so I'm pretty picky about which mills I buy flooring from. Not all are the same in terms of quality or grading, even though NOFMA mills are suppopsed to adhere to NOFMA grading standards. Here is a list of NOFMA member mills. Of this list, Stuart is my first choice, with Memphis and Cherrybark in second position. Some of the others I have not used and cannot comment on. The one time I tried Zickgraf, I was very disappointed and have never used it again. Some others that aren't here are Bruce (which I do not like either) and American Made brand of UNFINISHED flooring, which is very good as well but not a member of NOFMA. BLC is fine as well but just average, IMO. Here's the link to NOFMA's member mills:
http://www.nofma.org/Membership/Manufac ... fault.aspx
And a link to NOFMA'S grading standards:
http://www.nofma.org/CertificationGradi ... fault.aspx

Thanks for your comments on my flooring. Our contractor is using a NEW distributor that is using Sommerset unfinished flooring. Do you know anything about this mill? Our previous flooring was Maxwell (a NOFMA mill) and both the staining company, as well as, the new distributor said it was poor quality flooring. And that we will see a BIG difference with the Sommerset product. In their opinion the clear grading is not necessary when using this mill. What are your thoughts?

As far as stains....the company was using the Miniwax oil based stain. Is there a difference between the water based you are speaking of or is Minwax just homeowner quality regardless?

Before the new regulations went into effect, they are telling us that they bought up the oil based poly also. We have been told this is a better finish. We are having 3 coats put down as we have a dog and two teenagers (plus their friends!).

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Karen

I sell Maxwell flooring and know it pretty well. Its a southern mill that so it will have a little more color compared to some others. Somerset is a appalacian mill so it will be a little bit tighter grained and the color will be somewhat more uniform.