Hello.

I have engineered hard wood cherry floors. They were installed about 6 months ago. These floors were suggested to us by the retailer and installer because we have radiant floor heat. I posted a message earlier in the year regarding gaps we were getting (about an 1/8 inch) at the tops not sides. This still has not been resolved. I came home today and noticed that at least two boards have the "real wood" top sheet separating from the plywood backing. Its basically coming off as one sheet. What is going on? Is this a milling issue? The manufacturing company Preverco has been zero help. Please someone advise. These floors were really expensive, we did 900 square feet! Is this just going to continue to happen? What should I do?

Yes its a manufacturing issue and you need to address it with the seller and installer.
more info is needed on the installation...over concrete?
vapor barrier?
species of veneer?
how many ply etc?

delamination is a manufacturing issue.

the floor will have to be replaced..who pays for it is going to be the battle..

Manufacturers will normally only give replacement materials? do you have confidence in them now?
Installer may not be at fault if it is material,so he gets paid...to rip AND DO IT..
IF he sold you thre materials, then he needs to honor it..
retailer sold it? then they need to honor it, and they take it upwith maker...
bottomline, hope you dealt with honorable people..///

These floors were put on a second floor and layed ontop of a plywood subfloor. The installer did not use a vapor barrier, told me it is now common not to use a vapor barrier. The species was american cherry. Not sure whatbyou mean by "ply".

the number of "plys" that comprise the product..you can look at the cross section and count them...6-7 ply typical.

how wide was the cherry...there is your first problem

problem1. no vapor barriers...but on 2nd floor..not so much an issue..this dont trouble me too much.
but it can be an issue..width of plank important.

Problem 2.....AMERICAN CHERRY......never over radiant...NEVER....

3) installer may have misinformed you, however, manufacturers instructions would state if required.

if substrate was wet or have high Moisture content,this would bake off into the wood floor when heat is up..this moisture would then go into the flooring...causing it to run wild,,,,gap...american cherry is a very volatile material when it comes to reacting to moisture, increased and decreased...

this can cause delamination...because of the rates the floor expanded and contracted...
the manufacturers adhesion system and underlayment materials may also be an issue..

James knows what he is talking about. If the seller and manufacturer don't move on this they are just stalling. Go get a construction attorney that has knowledge of issues like this. Or perhaps any licensing board in your state.

We were told engineered cherry was a good choice for radiant floors. Are they liable for giving the wrong info. Both the seller and manufacturer still say cherry is a good choice and holds up well with radiant

Width of planks are 5 inches

the floor is gone and destroyed chris...sorry to tell you.


NWFA/NOFMA guidelines list maple, Cherry, american and brazilian,, as well other materials on there DO NOT Install list..

However, maufacturers rule when it come to thei direction and methods..
if they tell you and write it, then guess what? its on them.

5" is also very wide...now given its engineered, this ould allow you to go over radiant as long as maker says ok.
5' would be too wide
with 4" the cutoff for solid...

Its time to start your claim process..installer, seller, and maker will probably make an investigation,trip to your home etc..

whoever you contracted with and bought form is your first start.

if you bought the materials outside of the contractor/installer...then you will be SOL..and deal direct with where you bought form or maker..

Regarding the gaps. The company is saying they have never seen them gap at the tops, only the sides. Is this true, has anybody seen top gaps. The are saying the subfloor shrunk and caused this type of gaps

Does anyone know if the company is liable for providing bad information. Also, the manufacture says it can go over radiant.

Chris,

i have read your other thread...about the gaps..

they are in a doorway?
does the floor change direction at this point?

you say glue in S pattern...with what type of glue?

bad info is not the liability..it is their instruction and product..and how their warranty reads.

is the floor is changing direction,,,,it is not shrinking across the top sides...it is the long side of the other floor shrinking..you can measure the board yourself to see..IF ITS UNDER 5" THEN YOU KNOW..

Also, since it was glued and nailed, the adhesive is important..

if it was construction, liquid nail etc..this could be a problem...it wont allow proper expansion..

someone indicated plywood panelization which is very real..
this type of separation will occur in an archway or points where the boards and at the seam of the plywood or nailed
into one plywood sheet and the other sheet moves( if that makes sense to you) it will pull the board open...this can happen in a strait line or a staggered effect and is in fact shrinkage.

the "hot spot" your builder pointed out is definitely an issue there and it will correct after heating season.
but the problem is not only in your wood floor, it is the whole substrate moving..and this is definitely related to your heat source..no ifs ands or butts..
but still does not address the issue if the delamination..this is the maker...

American cherry even engineered doesn't belong over radiant....width, species, heat source, substrate..adhesive..have all
played a part here...

i think you have a compilation of issues..

the underlayment plys of the floor are expanding and contracting at a different rate then the cherry..
the cherry will see significant shrinkage in comparison,thus causing it to break away..
the material is garbage..
I had the issue about 10 years ago...with a floating floor install over radiant...was fine for 3 months,then soon as the real heating season kicked in..the floor went wild..
maker replaced..told them i wouldnt install it again..we got payed..had another issue..
everyone tried to hang it on us because we installed it...we didn't furnish the material and after having first issue with same maker..
i just walked away from it..had to..we were subcontracted to install..

one more thing..

if my memory serves me correctly, the floor surface temperature must NOT exceed 85 degrees F...or 80..i forget exactly,
if it is over this, the manufacturer will not honor it , nor any others.\\this will then be on your builder and plumber..

assuming this floor is installed a time of those installations..

if it came after, and they had carpet???then its back to your contractor/installer...

who did you buy from and contract with??? thats where it begins..

Thanks James

The gaps are in the doorway.

The floor does not change direction.

They used a liquid nail as the adhesive.

Thanks for all your help. Who wins this battle? or am I just shizz out of luck? if the manufacture just wants to replace a few boards should I let them? Does this seem like a homeowner fault or the installer / wood seller (same company)

They did send someone out from Preverco and he said the floor was not to hot. I don't really understand the Panelization thing?

How do I get the company to stand behind the product.

Thanks all for your help and information. This site does a great job at giving someone like me who has no experience with wood floors excellent advice. I spoke with the installer and folks who sold me the product. They said they are 100% behind me and will fix the problem and theat it should not have happened. They are coming out Monday to check out the situation but I am VERY CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC. I will give you an update Monday.