Mr. Berstein: Vaniers own Installation Instructions and Warranty call for consistent temperature between 60-80 degrees F so keeping the temp between 78-80 was within the range they instructed. Secondly, do you disagree with James TRD then that delamination and or cracking can be from causes other than manufacturing issue?

Parrotboy, your not listening, it's about the relative humidity more than the temp in your case.



IMO it's not the installers problem if you don't read the manufacturers literature. In many cases manufacturers put it right on the outside of the boxes even. Consumers still ignore it. Installers cannot force a consumer to buy a humidifier.

Oh I forgot one thing. Engineered should never ever delaminate. If it is made to U.S. standards, ANSI/HPVA EF 2009 . Anderson, WD, Owens and many other U.S. manufacturers state they manufacturer engineered to this standard now. If they don't then your stuck with junk. I believe it is a voluntary standard and that is how they typically get away with making junk that delaminates in arid zones. At most it should only check or split.

THis is a product issue. Not the installers fault. Good luck to you.

There was a "leveling" of the floor prior to installation. Is it possible inadequate time was allowed for the leveling agent to cure, and that the moisture differential between the engineered flooring and the leveling agent could be causing problems? I notice that the huge majority of problems of delamination and checking and cupping are in the region where this leveling occured.

sounds like you have two diffrent problems then. Checking and cupping are not really related. Checking is a kiln drying defect that is pretty much hidden until you drop the r/h to a point where they open up. The cupping is a site related issue.

That sounds right to me. Parrot boy ,you can go after your installer if you want to but you should go after the manufacturer of this junk wood. Checking is no one's fault of the than the manufacturer and China manufactures junk.it's cheap because CHinese businesses exploit their workers and China has no intention of meeting any other countries standards.I've seen this first hand.

In the future, always ask pros what materials they would recommend for a job and then if you can find those materials on your own, feel free to buy them.I ask mechanics which cars they see the most or least of before I buy a car.

i he leveld one day and installed the next, he did nothing wrong by most self levelers instructions that I've used and read..

also, you have heard from 3 different sources..delaminating will NOT occur because of high moisture in a quality made product.

if you dont belive me, throw a quality made product in a bucket of water.. ..see what happens

I'd imagine Chinese flooring companies use something like Elmer's glue to make their flooring.

Here is the old standard HVPA, can't show you the new 2009, I doubt your flooring would pass;

The American National Standard for Engineered Wood Flooring, ANSI/HPVA EF 2002
3.5 Bond Line �" All adjacent surfaces of each ply shall be uniformly and securely
bonded. The flooring shall conform to the requirements of the bond test described in 4.2
3.7 Construction �" The flooring pieces shall be of balanced construction, which means
that they are free from warp or twist to the extent that they do not interfere with the
installation or negatively affect the intended use of the product. The purpose of this
requirement is to provide a product which will perform satisfactorily over the typical
range of humidity and temperature in an indoor environment, when installed according to
the instructions of the manufacturer. Any construction with an even or odd number of
plies, and any combination of thicknesses and shrinkage characteristics that meets the
requirement for balanced construction is permitted. No two adjacent plies shall have
coinciding openings greater than 12.7 mm (1/2 inch)
4.2 Bond Line Test �" Two test specimens, 50.8 mm (2 inches) wide by 127 mm (5
inches) along the grain, shall be cut from each flooring sample tested. The specimens
shall be cut from opposite sides of the flooring after all tongue and groove portions have
been removed. The specimens shall be submerged in water at 24 C+-3C (75 F +-5F) for 4
hours, and then dried at a temperature between 49 and 52 C (120 and 125 F) for 19 hours,
with sufficient air circulation to lower the moisture content (based on oven-dry weight) of
the specimens to a maximum of 8 percent. This cycle shall be repeated until all
specimens fail or until thr ee cycles have been completed, whichever occurs first. The
flooring shall be considered as failing when any single delamination between two plies of
either specimen is greater than 50.8 mm (2 inches) in continuous length, over 6.4 mm
(1/4 inch) in depth at any pint, and 0.08 mm (.003 inch) in width as determined by a
feeler gauge 0.08 mm (0.003 inches) thick and 12.7 mm (1/2 inch) wide. Specimens shall
be examined for delamination at the end of each cycle. Delamination due to tape at joints
or inner plies or defects allowed by the grade shall be disregarded. For performing the
bond line test, the flooring samples shall be selected in multiples of ten in order to
provide for a sufficient number of specimens (two specimens per sample) to which the
acceptance levels are applied. Ninety-five percent of test specimens shall pass the first
cycle, and eighty- five percent of test specimens shall pass the third cycle.

[quote=As far as comparing it to HD, Lowes, or LL is like comparing grade D movies. I don't know why people go there instead of retail flooring stores that have known brands and sales people that acually know what they are talking about. Most of the products in the box stores not just flooring are made at a lower quality to meet there price structure.[/quote]

The box stores do sell name brands. I don't understand this statement.

This Old House promotes Bella flooring which is made by LL.

I agree the floor I got years ago from HD was cheap quality. We'll see about this new one from the retail store.