I am a new home owner and new to all of this so any suggestions would help!

My wife and I just built a new home and decided to go with the engineered hand scraped 5 inch boards. The brand is Kraus and the style is the Sorrento Raspada Acadia. we installed approximately 2000 sq/ft in the main open area of the house (entrance, living rooms, kitchen). The rest of the house is tile and carpet.

The night after the install we came to the house to check out the work and it seemed alright, we have 23ft ceilings with the L.E.D light bulbs and the show everything! The first thing we noticed was that you can see between the floor boards longways. Its not every board but in a specific area. I know with hand scraped that may happened with the milling but it was a concern at first. The floor contractor said he can shoot some dye in between those areas to fix it. We agreed that he can fix it after we uncover the floors from the whole project and after the trades are done.

Now this is where the fun begins.... The house was complete and we moved in. I noticed and area where the butt ends are not pushed together. It about a 10x10 area and most of them are tight. another area when the loft steps come down, there is a gap about 1/8 inch wide. now in our kitchen there is a board not tight against the others and slightly out of alignment and you can easily fit a nickel between them. I can go on and on about the issues of the gaps.

The floor was acclimated properly in the house. They had it in there for about a week before install, and all HVAC was up and running. We do not have any moisture issues at all. and the floor was Nailed down, and glued around the edges. Before i contacted the guy we purchased the floor from, I called the Rep for Kraus. He came out to the house with the guy we purchased the floor from. He said it is not a manufacture issue. That had to of meant it was an install issue. The rep said can i talk to the installer who did the job so i can ask him how he did it. The floor guy replied "he is no longer with the company".... Basically it was a bad install and rushed job. The owner agreed to it as well.

Now here is where it gets tricky. To fix the floor is not an easy task. I had a few installers come out and check it out, and they said it all has to come up. With that includes the following. 1.) take all baseboard out 2.) take out all appliances because the are on top of the floors. 3.) remove out island, the trim around the refrigerator and all kick plates under the cabinets.

The guy we contracted knows its a big job and offered some tile backs plashes in all of the bathrooms. We declined and said we want our floors fixed. We paid for a professional job and want what we paid for. after him kicking around a bit i wrote a professional email demanding that we want it replaced. I did not mention attorney, court, suing, etc. he replied "i will contact my sub contractors insurance company tomorrow. He contacted them and they said they want a certified inspector to come check it out. May 3rd the inspector came out. to sum it up, he said it was a rushed job etc. I can go on about it but im just cutting to the chase.

I told the floor guy previously that he is ultimately responsible because he is his installer. He said "our installers are required to carry their own insurance" "You might want to hold us responsible but that is not the case in this situation" Then he said i will be more than happy to get you the installers information and we are added onto his insurance if a claim would occur.

That was the day before the inspection. is he responsible for the bad install? can his installer report a bad install to his insurance? or does someone have to eat it? If i have to go after him in small claims court that is not an issue. I will not let him get away with it no matter what and will go through the whole court process. any input would be very grateful! if i left anything out that needs an answer let me know! thanks everyone!

Well, I am always amused when I hear..."after all the trades were gone"

Theres so many variables like moisture testing the wood, the substrate to insure there is not a large difference in moisture content, whats going on under the subfloor. What the trades did eg; painting, texturing and tiling that raises the rh in the house. All thats supposed to be done first. Fastener schedule. Last but not least, how dry is it in the house now verses when it was installed?

The inspector did all of his test for moisture readings and humidity levels etc. the painting and tiling was all done before the installed the floor, then the trim guy put in the baseboard. The inspectors report concluded that the floor was not properly installed. i know its way more detailed, but thats what it came down to. does that help at all?

I'd need to read the report. Not all inspectors are the same. Some have never installed a stick of wood. Post it with edited names. My bet is there is no documentation of the specs prior to installation. And it is my understanding that no liability isnurance company pays out for bad installations. Only if they burn your house down or damage something.

Ill get the report posted Tomorow! Thank you so much!

TO my knowledge ,which is limited very few contractors carry the kind of insurance that will pay for bad labor. It's extremely hard to acquire so chances are , this will be a legal battle.

Product/Claim Information
Style: 5” wide engineered hand scraped walnut
Installation Method: staple down over basement
Heating: forced air. Homeowner stated that there is a whole house humidifier in operation.
Description of Complaint:
The homeowners are complaining that there are large, visible gaps at numerous end joints scattered throughout the site. There is also a section with plank side gaps.
Description of Problems, Observations, and Tests:
There are numerous gaps found at plank end joints. These are evenly scattered throughout the installation. Approximately 15-20% of the end joints have a gap between planks of 3/64”-1/16”. Gaps are not found on the remainder of the end joints. The majority of the end joints are tightly fitted together and show no signs of gapping. The very light colored tongues of the planks can be seen in the open gaps. The top veneer of the engineered flooring is a relatively dark walnut color and the color of the tongues is a stark contrast to the surface of the flooring. The light tongues are made even more visible by the very focused and intense lighting in the room’s ceiling.
There is an area near the front of the refrigerator which has gaps along the ends and side joints of planks. The side joint gaps are noticeably wedge shaped and more than a foot in length.
The fastener location was checked with magnets and found to be acceptable according to industry guidelines. There is no indication that improper fastening of the flooring to the subfloor is a factor leading to the gaps.
Conclusions:
The gaps seen on the plank ends were present at the time of installation. These gaps did not occur as a result of the planks losing moisture content and getting shorter. All of the flooring is exposed to the same environmental conditions and it all would have shrunken if drying was the cause of the gaps. This flooring material is a 9 ply engineered product which is extremely stable dimensionally. Since all of the planks were
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packaged in cartons for an extended period of time, the planks would have been at similar moisture content at the time of installation. The idea of numerous random planks shrinking in length is not reasonable. This is an installer error. Planks are supposed to be fitted tightly together. Very small gaps can be filled with a product designed for that purpose. Gaps like those found on this site are of a different variety than those that are normally acceptable to be addressed with filler. Stain and putty is a normal part of a hardwood floor installation. The stain and putty are supposed to be used to “touch-up” minor issues found after the completion of the installation. The stain and putty is normally not intended to hide obvious installation errors. The gaps found on this site may not have been obvious to the installer or the homeowners immediately after the flooring was installed but these gaps were undoubtedly present from the beginning.
The light bulbs in this home are simply the icing on the cake since they dramatically highlight the gaps. It is well known in the hardwood inspection industry that light fixtures which produce intense, direct light serve to make any gaps appear larger than they actually would appear under more traditional lighting. The gaps are there. The lights make them very visible. The gaps should not be there if the flooring was properly installed. The homeowner does not find the gaps acceptable. There is no industry standard that deals with installation related gaps. The standard is “what the homeowner is willing to accept”.
The installer stated that there were no gaps when he left the job. This cannot be accurate. It is likely that he simply did not see the gaps due to the lighting conditions of the home which was under construction. The beveled edges of the planks could also have made it difficult for the installer to see gaps and correct them during the installation.
The gaps do not appear in any sort of pattern as is seen when subfloor panel movement is the cause of gapping. Subfloor panels are 4’ x 8’ in size. When these panels are overly wet at the time the flooring is installed and later dry out and shrink, gaps are found at the panel perimeters in 4’ and/or 8’ intervals. This is simply not the case on this site. Further, it is the responsibility of the installer to check the subfloor and flooring moisture content and halt the installation of the floor if the levels are not acceptable.
C. Installation constitutes acceptance of flooring material, subfloor/substrate, the jobsite itself including the ambient temperature and relative humidity at the time of installation, and all impacting variables that may affect a wood floor.
Source: NWFA Installation Guidelines
6. During installation of flooring pieces, push or gently tap boards flush to the previous row. Tap against the tongue; tapping the groove may damage the edge. To prevent damage to the finish, avoid tapping the face of the board with a rubber mallet.
Source: NWFA Installation Guidelines, Chapter 8, Part VI
It is not practical to replace planks with end gaps on this site. It may be possible to use stain and/or filler on the gaps which would produce satisfactory results for the homeowners. Perfection is not the standard by which a hardwood floor is to be judged.
Fortunately, the flooring is stapled to the OSB subfloor. This makes it completely possible to take up and reinstall the flooring properly with minimal need for additional material. The damage made to the plank tongues by a tiny headed (1/4”) staple is insignificant. The risk of damage to walls, trim moldings, cabinets, appliances, etc. is significant when taking up and installing a floor.
In my opinion, the gaps do not cause the floor to be completely unacceptable. Stain on the visible, light colored tongues would make the floor’s appearance acceptable. Larger gaps could benefit from the careful use of a filler product designed for gaps of the size found on this site. A financial adjustment for the slightly diminished value of the floor is another option.

No 10 to 20 plank measurements? Is it random plank or all the same size plank, nothing about that either?

No temp and rh measurements at time of inspection? No subfloor moisture content measurements.



You cannot say that on a report, it is pure specualtion on his part. He needs to prove it with facts.

The planks are all different sizes. At the top he mentions how putty is not meant to hide obvious installation errors. Then at the end he mentions about using putty... Why would he say that? He seems nice and knowledgeable. Here is is site. Www.pro-floor-services.com

David is pretty smart. Many manufacturers do say putty is allowed in their installation requirements. Thats a grey area wether or not it is an installation error or defective wood or site condition creating the problem.

Whats the rh in the house at time of , installation, inspection and now?

And did you actually see those gaps at the beginning or not like he says?

Some of that was mentioned SP...3rd paragraph first post.

I don't see how an engineered floor can shrink that much as you seem to be getting to. Good report, covers a lot of things, thought provoking.



I found something that mentions this...I posted it somewhere awhile back, it's an image. I'm almost sure it dealt with prefinished, but maybe not engineered.

Yes the gaps were there but we noticed the worst part of them after we uncovered the floors. I believe the rh is set at 38% right now.
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's what it's set at.

My main concern on the report is the beginning where he mentions putty isn't good, and at the end where he mentions it can be corrected. I'm so sick over this. Do you know if kraus allows putty to be used as a repair method?

Engineered expands and shrinks lengthwise vs width wise for solid. Thats a fact.

It is entirely possible he left gaps. Although in the report David infers you did not see them initially. Thats a conflict there. Now you see them, could the rh have been higher at installation, now it has dried down leaving bigger gaps?

This is what irks me to death.....is that installers do not protect themselves by documenting the MC of the wood, subfloor, temp and rh with pictures. If they did that then they might have a leg to stand on. Without it and you get inspectors ready to pounce.

I would double check the rh and well, I don't know what zone your in or your median rh level. But what we all know is wood shrinks and expands. The culprit is excessive moisture or loss of it. I don't agree with a couple aspects of his report eg panelization, but then I hardly agree with anyone.

Still, I doubt David would write any report and not cover rh and temp at time of inspection. Or/also cover wood measurements and ask about documentation by the retailer/installer/distributor for moisture content at shipping and milling etc. Are you sure your showing us the whole report? I can contact him and have him review it within hours if need be.

About the random planks. Are they actually randon or random specific sizes? Some manufacturers of prefinished engineered say random. But then theres only three or four sized planks and those planks are equal sized in lenght.

Who covered the floors and with what? You keep adding in these facts about the floor installation that have alot to do with how the floor is going to function after the fact.
Why were the floors covered if there was only a trim guy coming in?

We covered them with tons of drop cloths, well there was more than just trim. The cabinets, appliances, the guy who did the stair rails. We wanted them covered to protect them from any traffic in the house.