That's a good point Ray. It does happen.

Correct Ray! In this case the installer was an employee of the contractor that was hired by the builder. He may be called a subcontractor, but we all know the truth to that.

The installation representitive of Joe Blows Carpet and Flooring...

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of your help so far. After escalating the situation with the home builder, I had all 2000 square feet of the wood floors replaced last week. We had the same product put down, which is a 3" Anderson 5 ply engineered wood (Freedom Patagonia Pecan PPE3794).

After they ripped up all of the old floor, they used a Tramex Wood Encounter to measure the moisture level of the concrete. It was between 5.5% and 6% throughout the house. However, after sitting for 2 days it fell to between 4% and 4.5%. So, after 4 days of acclimation, they put down the new wood.

It looks 98% better, but *some* of the end joints are still slightly peaked. Nothing like before, but still slightly visible (I can provide pictures if it would help). They say that on a new floor, that is normal. Do you guys agree with that? I don't expect it to be "perfect" and have every end joint abut every other end joint perfectly, but, am rather paranoid about peaking at this point.

My other question is, are you comfortable with the moisture level being high due to trapped moisture under the being simply a "one time" occurrence? Once it fell to 4.0% or so, do you think we're out of the woods, or would you expect it to come back up? If so, what could be causing it? The slab is elevated above ground level. There is good sloping away from the house. We've tested and proven that the water supply and drainage systems are not leaking. Have you ever seen a case like this?

While the furniture was being replaced some new planks got damaged so they are going to pull those up. At that time I'm going to have them remeasure with the Tramex to see if the level has risen since the installation (i.e. is there still moisture under there that is being trapped?).

Thanks again!

Josh

Hi Guys,

I'd forgotten to mention that our home builder had signed a disclaimer with the flooring subcontractor taking full responsibility for having the wood put in a house with little or no HVAC and without proper acclimation. So, in the end it was technically the builder's responsibility. I'm under the impression, however, that the flooring subcontractor was strong armed into covering everything since they get a lot of business from this builder. Tough industry!

Josh

Geesh, I have a feeling somebody is crossing their fingers on this one. No moisture barrier after it failing once already?

To the best of my knowledge there isn't a moisture barrier... Does the "floor leveling" stuff they use (Wetrete or something like this) constitute one at all?

Also, I have several relative humidity meters in my house. They usually read 42% to 54% (the high end is reached during the day when AC only comes on at 78 degrees). Is that normal in Texas (Dallas area)? I started monitoring it when awhile ago as I was thinking that if those showed too high it would be a good indicator that there was a continuous level of moisture coming up through the slab. and wood.

Thanks,

Josh

Sorry for the multiple posts... When Anderson Floors sent out an inspector, that guy told me that moisture barriers can only be installed on planks wider than 5"... Is that true?

Thanks,

Josh

Moisture barriers for gluedown on concrete, consist of a trowel on or roll on moisture blocker, or knockdown.

The high end joints should not be there, unless they are using an acrylic waterbased adhesive, and not a moisture cure urethane.

I would expect them to be using Anderson's "Duck" glue. An acrylic urethane!
I used it a few years ago on an Anderson Pecan 3" floor direct to concrete. I saw a little peaking at first but just recently went back to bid the upstairs of the same house and the floors looked good. At least from an installation perspective. No peaking or cupping.

With the concrete Moisture Content lowering that fast, I suspect Vapor Emissions are not a problem. To think that four days of acclimation would be enough to pull the "Concrete Water" used at mixing/placement out of the slab is scary. So, the top of the slab is lowered enough, but to think the Relative Humidity on the bottom 3/4ths of the slab is lowered to a safe level is dangerous. If the top of the slab is at 5#, the bottom is at 10#......
End peaking is not normal and rarely goes down as the ends of the planks are not bonded to the substrate surface. If the ends flatten I would be surprised and at best they are flat, but not bonded... which may not interfere with the performance of the flooring system.
Sealers work, but are temporary... Concrete sealers are relatively new so we have no history over 7 or 8 years to confirm success. Been seeing failures after 3 and 4 years..
Enjoy the floor.

i am having an anderson engineered product installed in my new concrete slab home in florida. I am using the Anderson Mountain Series 5" Natural Hickory MH5494.

i am having the wood installed AFTER I close on the home with the builder so I can control the acclimation, air conditioning, etc.

when i first talked with the installer he said you don't have to acclimate engineered (this company only does hardwood floors!). But I told him that I want to acclimate anyway (that means just laying it in the rooms that will have the wood installed in right?).

So, my installation will be in October. How long should my product acclimate in the home? Also, is the air temperature supposed to be set on the temp that I will usually have the home set (my comfort level)?

Also, during construction, the moisture test showed as 12 all over the home. Should this continue to be tested, or is just a moisture test right before the installation guide the installer to use a moisture barrier or not?

thank you

Hmmmn, SW Florida? Maybe I know them. Give us a call. We're based in Bonita Springs, offer the[url=http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodinstaller/anderson-mountain-art.htm/]
same product[/url] on our site and have an installer with 20 years experience who handles local jobs. It's best to have the installation environment comparable to normal living conditions. Considering many of us run the AC from Mid March until November, there's really no set temperature, as it's preferred to have the Rh somewhere in the 40-60% range.

12%? Sounds real high. What kind of moisture testing is being performed?

i found the company using the NWFA list. I talked with the owner and he is going to acclimate. the salesperson said you don't have to, but I know better. i have already given a deposit. they are in sarasota, i am in rotonda west (charlotte county). They seem reputable and the pricing was pretty good for this product I selected.

I just want to find out as much information about a CORRECT install as possible for my high humidity, new concrete slab, Florida installation.

He used some kind of hand meter that showed 12. When he measured, it was after a rain, windows open and the house was much more open to the elements. Now insulation, sheetrock, doors, paint, etc are done and I wonder if he should come out again to do the moisture test and then again after I have closed with the AC on.

thanks for your help!

What did he use to test and get a baseline for the moisture in the concrete?

That is the big question that needs to be answered. 3-lb per 1000 sq.ft. is the highest possible concrete reading acceptable, by wood manufacturers. I could careless what the framing in the house reads, as it has gained all the moisture from being exposed and all the "wet trades" working in the home.

Ken, you mentioned 40 - 60%. My house stays pretty stable around 53%. Will homes in Florida have a higher RH than norther states, or should the RH always be about the same?