Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:40 pm 
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FWIW, before you file any complaints decide what would be acceptable remedy(s) as any agency or department you file a complaint with is going to ask you what you want. Sit down with your wife and talk this over. The agency personnel aren't going to know anything about flooring installation or subfloor preparation.....they will just be getting the installer's and maybe the inspector's attention and presenting your complaints and desired remedy(s) to them. Details are good as they avoid the people acting on your behalf from making erroneous assumptions.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:45 pm
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Location: Tucson AZ
Quote:
The inspector says give the installer a chance to make it right and he said he would amend his report if the installer does not do what is right.


Legally your supposed to give the installer the chance to fix it. But I don't get the part about amending the report. Never heard of that. Either its right or it isn't.

Dalton and those inspection certification institutions are churning out lots of unqualified inspectors. Many have never installed a wood floor in their life.

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:40 am 
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Just wanted to give an update. Inspector has amended his report and it now says
"Based on the findings performed by the homeowner and NWFA Installation guidelines, the discussions at time of inspection are not relevant. The floors overall are insufficiently fastened and improperly fastened in an excessive amount of areas. In order to perform as intended and able to take proper sanding/finishing, face nailing repairs are not an option and the floors should be removed and replaced. Before a new floor is installed, sub floor repairs are likely necessary from the top where movement is noted and soundness is insufficient and from underneath in the unfinished part of the basement were joist/sub floor connection need shored up. "

The installer has not seen the amendment, the installer is now going to hire his own inspector. I asked why another inspector was needed and if he did not believe my findings of where boards were missing nails, he could come over and we can check it with a magnet together or pull up boards. He refused and said he wanted to have his own inspector. My gut tells me he is stalling for time or hiring an unscrupulous inspector. My inspector advised I try to insist they were NWFA certified and so far the installer will not even tell me who it is. My gut also tells me I should quit trying to be so nice and to go ahead and file in small claims court and start hitting him on the BBB, Dept of Commerce and Insurance, his licensing company that certified him as a hardwood installer, and on Angie's list and Home Advisor where he advertises and uses their services. There is a teeny tiny small part of me that says they are struggling swallowing the loss and will do what is right in the end and for me to hold off on firing with both barrels.

I still would allow them to do their inspection, they will find the same thing if they are honest.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:57 am 
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Bucky wrote:
Just wanted to give an update. Inspector has amended his report and it now says
"Based on the findings performed by the homeowner and NWFA Installation guidelines, the discussions at time of inspection are not relevant. The floors overall are insufficiently fastened and improperly fastened in an excessive amount of areas. In order to perform as intended and able to take proper sanding/finishing, face nailing repairs are not an option and the floors should be removed and replaced. Before a new floor is installed, sub floor repairs are likely necessary from the top where movement is noted and soundness is insufficient and from underneath in the unfinished part of the basement were joist/sub floor connection need shored up. "

The installer has not seen the amendment, the installer is now going to hire his own inspector. I asked why another inspector was needed and if he did not believe my findings of where boards were missing nails, he could come over and we can check it with a magnet together or pull up boards. He refused and said he wanted to have his own inspector. My gut tells me he is stalling for time or hiring an unscrupulous inspector. My inspector advised I try to insist they were NWFA certified and so far the installer will not even tell me who it is. My gut also tells me I should quit trying to be so nice and to go ahead and file in small claims court and start hitting him on the BBB, Dept of Commerce and Insurance, his licensing company that certified him as a hardwood installer, and on Angie's list and Home Advisor where he advertises and uses their services. There is a teeny tiny small part of me that says they are struggling swallowing the loss and will do what is right in the end and for me to hold off on firing with both barrels.

I still would allow them to do their inspection, they will find the same thing if they are honest.


Personally, I wouldn't take any action with small claims, BBB, licensing company, etc until the installer has had a Reasonable amount of time to get his own inspector. Once you start playing hardball it'll be difficult to go backwards. Keep good documentation of what happens, dates, etc. and in writing if possible. Hopefully you will not need this but if and when you do you will be well prepared.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:16 am 
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JIMMIEM wrote:
Bucky wrote:
Just wanted to give an update. Inspector has amended his report and it now says
"Based on the findings performed by the homeowner and NWFA Installation guidelines, the discussions at time of inspection are not relevant. The floors overall are insufficiently fastened and improperly fastened in an excessive amount of areas. In order to perform as intended and able to take proper sanding/finishing, face nailing repairs are not an option and the floors should be removed and replaced. Before a new floor is installed, sub floor repairs are likely necessary from the top where movement is noted and soundness is insufficient and from underneath in the unfinished part of the basement were joist/sub floor connection need shored up. "

The installer has not seen the amendment, the installer is now going to hire his own inspector. I asked why another inspector was needed and if he did not believe my findings of where boards were missing nails, he could come over and we can check it with a magnet together or pull up boards. He refused and said he wanted to have his own inspector. My gut tells me he is stalling for time or hiring an unscrupulous inspector. My inspector advised I try to insist they were NWFA certified and so far the installer will not even tell me who it is. My gut also tells me I should quit trying to be so nice and to go ahead and file in small claims court and start hitting him on the BBB, Dept of Commerce and Insurance, his licensing company that certified him as a hardwood installer, and on Angie's list and Home Advisor where he advertises and uses their services. There is a teeny tiny small part of me that says they are struggling swallowing the loss and will do what is right in the end and for me to hold off on firing with both barrels.

I still would allow them to do their inspection, they will find the same thing if they are honest.


Personally, I wouldn't take any action with small claims, BBB, licensing company, etc until the installer has had a Reasonable amount of time to get his own inspector. Once you start playing hardball it'll be difficult to go backwards. Keep good documentation of what happens, dates, etc. and in writing if possible. Hopefully you will not need this but if and when you do you will be well prepared.


Thanks, sounds like wise advice. I just have this sick feeling all of the time and right now, the pill is still in my mouth and I feel like they are trying to force it down my throat. A very uncomfortable feeling that is likely causing my fight or flight instincts to take over.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:21 am 
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Bucky wrote:
JIMMIEM wrote:
Bucky wrote:
Just wanted to give an update. Inspector has amended his report and it now says
"Based on the findings performed by the homeowner and NWFA Installation guidelines, the discussions at time of inspection are not relevant. The floors overall are insufficiently fastened and improperly fastened in an excessive amount of areas. In order to perform as intended and able to take proper sanding/finishing, face nailing repairs are not an option and the floors should be removed and replaced. Before a new floor is installed, sub floor repairs are likely necessary from the top where movement is noted and soundness is insufficient and from underneath in the unfinished part of the basement were joist/sub floor connection need shored up. "

The installer has not seen the amendment, the installer is now going to hire his own inspector. I asked why another inspector was needed and if he did not believe my findings of where boards were missing nails, he could come over and we can check it with a magnet together or pull up boards. He refused and said he wanted to have his own inspector. My gut tells me he is stalling for time or hiring an unscrupulous inspector. My inspector advised I try to insist they were NWFA certified and so far the installer will not even tell me who it is. My gut also tells me I should quit trying to be so nice and to go ahead and file in small claims court and start hitting him on the BBB, Dept of Commerce and Insurance, his licensing company that certified him as a hardwood installer, and on Angie's list and Home Advisor where he advertises and uses their services. There is a teeny tiny small part of me that says they are struggling swallowing the loss and will do what is right in the end and for me to hold off on firing with both barrels.

I still would allow them to do their inspection, they will find the same thing if they are honest.


Personally, I wouldn't take any action with small claims, BBB, licensing company, etc until the installer has had a Reasonable amount of time to get his own inspector. Once you start playing hardball it'll be difficult to go backwards. Keep good documentation of what happens, dates, etc. and in writing if possible. Hopefully you will not need this but if and when you do you will be well prepared.


Thanks, sounds like wise advice. I just have this sick feeling all of the time and right now, the pill is still in my mouth and I feel like they are trying to force it down my throat. A very uncomfortable feeling that is likely causing my fight or flight instincts to take over.


I'm not trying to 'make light' of the situation, but try to keep things in perspective. Your inspector has made revisions which are now in your favor giving you some 'legal bite' should you need it, the installer is providing some response i.e. his own inspector. You aren't being totally stonewalled or ignored. It's a PIA nuisance problem but there are worse problems you could have. How many people in this country can even afford to install hardwood flooring of this price and quality?
I bought a new house a long time ago and spent years and a lot of $ fixing the builder's mistakes....I can relate to your situation but it could always be worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Just wanted to give an update. The installer brought in an inspector to look at the missing fasteners. He used magnetic ball bearings and went over the places I found and confirmed ~80%-90% of the ones I found were missing. There were some that his magnets found that I could not but we still are missing several hundred fasteners. He offered to take some of the extra wood and install them into plywood using the 6d nails and to put an oak colored epoxy in the holes and finish them with a natural oak finish and see what they look like. I am trying to work with him and so I gave him the chance to do this and we will see what they look like. If they are noticeable from 5-6 feet away, I do not think I will accept it. Their inspector did not call out subfloor issues and did notice some movement but said they felt it was normal.

So, we will see what they look like on Wednesday evening, if I am not comfortable with probably 300 nail holes in the floor, we will see what happens next.


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 Post subject: Re: Not enough staples
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Did the installer's inspector have any comments regarding your inspector's report? If the subfloor is properly fastened it should not have any movement....maybe normal for the type of work he does. One long term potential problem- if the subfloor has movement and the hardwood flooring is face nailed to it with the 6d nails there could be squeaks which occur when the floor or subfloor moves up and down and rubs against the nail. This may not happen but with all those face nails the odds go up. Installer's inspector seems to be singing the same song as the installer.....did you really think he would bring in an unbiased, independent inspector?


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