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 Post subject: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:08 pm 
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I am doing some stair platforms and tread replacement on the stairwell to our basement which was covered in carpet. My cuts(4 platform triangles worth) are ready and I am at point of installing (3-in-1) underlayment. The subfloor is level and I am armed with compressed air, straight nail guns (came w/ my compressor) and will rent a angled stapler.

Whats the pros and cons of nails vs. staplers?

:? A couple of "advisors" from HD said to glue as well as nail/staple. To me that means I will put glue on top of my underlayment. All the studying I did on the Hardwoodflooring website seemed to say nail the 3/4 inch oak boards. I am doing small areas and to me this seems like overkill. My measurements are less than 54" on my longest side. In the starting corners the pieces are small...like 1.5-2 inch triangles so maybe these might not take a nail unless I pre-drill. Shouldn't nailing or stapling be enough. One advisor said to "to get a good fit do both". Please advise?

I do have some Timberline 2051 left by the previous installer of our kitchen floor. Here when we moved in. It says its synthetic polymer. Is that a urethane or water based adhesive in case I need to use it. The consistency of what is in the can is after sitting closed in the garage for two years is pretty thick but it looks spreadable. The open time is only 30-60 minutes so I wonder if this stuff is still any good?

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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:20 am 
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I'd stay away from the adhesive that's been sitting in the garage for two years.

3-1 underlayment with 3/4" hardwood? I'd avoid that as well.

Are the small pieces near the nosing or in a corner? If in the corner I'd just apply some titebond into the groove and keep them in place until the glue grabs(wedges). Against the nosing? Use some PL400 and secure to the subfloor.

PL400
http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products/det ... oductID=12


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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:54 pm 
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Thanks for the reply.
So what you are saying is that I don't need underlayment at all or don't use this particular product? . because I already bought it. Just enough to cover my area ...cost me about $5. What type of underlayment would work well...they had a cheaper foam made by the same company.

The smaller pieces are in the corners about 1-3 inches wide and as I go outward toward the nose(which I am guessing means the lip overhang over the lower section) its the widest. Are you saying don't nail/staple this just use this PL400 product which I see Lowe's sells cheap?

Is "titebond" a product and this its name..where is that sold?


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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:30 am 
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If I understand correctly, you have (3) triangle shaped landings you want to floor using 3/4" thick flooring. On the very small pieces, use glue and glue them to the substrate. Forget about underlayments, foam or paper. You do not need it in this scenario. You should install the nosing/landing strip piece first, using glue and a few brads through the face to secure it. Then install the rest of the flooring fitted tight to the landing strip. The longer and bigger pieces can be toe-nailed through the tongue. If you want to glue those, it cannot hurt. But use PL Premium Urethane adhesive in a tube with a caulking gun and glue to the substrate; not to each other. Be sure to clean any glue that may get on the surface off right away. With the smallest pieces, just use glue and wedge them tight. Remove the wedges after the glue has dried overnight. Nailing very small pieces will probably result in splitting them.


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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:03 pm 
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OK guys...this is valuable info and this PL product has been mentioned twice so sounds like I'll be going to Lowes for that.

By the "face" I would assume you mean the top at some pointsalong the width. I am not familiar with all the terms. Your pattern of application seems reversed in how i thought a gun was used, As I understand you going anterior to posterior the groove(female side) will be exposed as I lay the pieces in starting from the nose piece. All the pictures I have studied seemed to be shooting the nail into the tounge(male side which inserts into the groove). Did I cut them backward; should they have been facing rearward? I had planned on starting in the corners and working out...only way I see to shoot the nail into the male lip. These boards are not tounge and groove snap in they just seem to push into each other. I guess my question also is what exactly does toenailed in mean?


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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:03 pm 
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Here is an additional concern. There is a "urethane" adhesive by PL called Polyurethane construction adhesive..100% (which I bought) not "Premium" as one of you guys advised. Secondly the PL 400(which I also bought) speaks specifically to "subflooring adhesive usage and eliminates squeaks but does not have urethanse. What is the difference, pros and cons of these two adhesives. In my novice mindset I am thinking, hey maybe I could mix them. Come on guys duke it out for the best answer :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:46 pm 
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I believe your thinking about starting with the small piece and working your way to the nosing. This is wrong, as Gary said, start at the nosing. First piece is facenailed, ( correct, through the top ), this piece has tongue facing out. Following planks are toenailed ( at an angle , countersunk into the top crease of the tongue ). When you get to the smaller pieces ( where you cant physically toenail ), use the adhesive and wedge the planks tight overnight untill the adhesive is set.
Use any Urethane PL, for a solid plank.

Side note.... If your nosings have a "groove", you can use a "sliptongue" or " spline", and mate the groove of the plank into the groove of the nosing. Then you can glue this plank down with PL, and avoid face nailing. If your nosings have no grooves, then you need to face nail.

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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:23 am 
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OK getting the real info now. Definitely like the direct "urethane" glue answer from floorologist.

I can't spline and change the directions of the boards because I have already cut them and there are no leftovers and can't afford to start over. The solution means I will be gluing them down because the are facing toward the front as it made sense to me to start in the corner and work outward but now it seems to make as much sense to start front and go rearward. I should be able to use a angled nailer/stapler until I get to the really narrow ones that may split when nailed. This oak (3/4") seems really tough so how long would be too short to risk nailing into the crease of the tongue? I do have some short pieces so I imagine if Iget to the ones which are 6 inches or less and they split I can replace from scrap but if the ones that are 6-12 inches are risky I am in trouble because these stacks are sold as a lot...gotta buy the whole thing.

Lets do this ...
Thanks for the help


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 Post subject: Re: Novice starting small...glue and nailing/stapling
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:41 am 
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Fixitrod wrote:

This oak (3/4") seems really tough so how long would be too short to risk nailing into the crease of the tongue?


Rule of thumb is twice the thickness of the wood. So 3/4" thickness would be 1 1/2" minimum fastener length.

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http://www.lasvegaswoodflooring.com


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