Hi everyone, I'm new here as of tonight. Many friendly installers here may not be pleased to know that I am a self taught installer with no real training.... So if anyone could have mercy on me I am in need of some assistance. Here is the problem. I recently installed a 5/16 BR-111 Mahogany. The customer had a 1/2 inch plywood subfloor over 16" joists. Because of the height difference between floors the customer wanted me to add a 1/4" layer of plywood. After doing that I layed down the rosin paper and started installing the flooring using an old Stanley bostitch floor runner with 21 gauge staples. But I notcied when I walked on the floor that i could hear popping or snapping sounds. So I called BR-111 and was told that is could have something to do with microscopic beads of silca. I was a little confused with the explanation but was told that it might go away after it was walked on for awhile. So I continued to install floor. But this time I started using a Highpro as-4090 with 18 gauge staples. This seemed to help the problem , but did not completely get rid of it. Finaly I noticed that the snapping sounds were coming from some flexibilty in the boards. What I mean is, if I pushed my weight onto the groove end it would flex down a little and rub the tounge end of the board in the previous row back. I did fix this in a couple of spots by face nailing a 2" brad about 1/2" from the groove end and filling it. But the thought of putting face nails all over the floor makes me cringe. Has anyone encountered this problem before? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds to me like an air pressure Situation Both the guns you talk about work differently. When you switched staplers it seemed to solve your problem. I looked through the install specs for the 5/16. Without seeing the problem its hard to give you a fix. If you are getting bounce on the groove side it would seem to me not enough pressure was used while you were using the stanley.

Phil

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure how the pressure would change anything tho. When you say that the two nailers work differently what do you mean?

as not to mislead folks who search for answers.

A 1/2" inch plywood subfloor with 1/4" underlayment of any king is not a very suitable base for hardwood flooring. BR-1111 itself reccommends the following:

STEP 3: RECOMMENDED SUB-FLOORING
Staple-Down or Glue-Down Application
Preferred – 3/4" (19mm) CDX Grade Plywood or 3/4" (23/32") OSB PS2 Rated
Underlayment with a minimum 40 lbs. density
Minimum – 5/8" (15mm) CDX Grade Plywood with a minimum 40 lbs. density

In addition... if the plywood subfloor were (perhaps) exterior grade sheathing... interior voids could produce a very pronounced snapping when steped on... without finished floor or underlayment installed. Face nailing of the finished floor will reduce this by compreesing these voids.

Just my 2 cents:-) Nice site folks.

Dave T

I had the same problem on a Plyboo brand bamboo floor. I used a Powernail Model 200 with 1 &1/2" e-cleats. The flooring was 1/2" thick. I nailed 6" o.c. and the subfloor was 3/4" OSB with 5/8" plywood underlayment. Joists were 16" o.c. Subfloor and substrate did not flex. I called the Pres. of the company (Smith and Fong) and he came out and said, " Well, some floors pop and make sounds and sqweeks. Face nail wherever the floor is moving." He never did admit that it could have been a milling problem. T&G not fitting tightly enough. Had a similar problem nailing (stapling) down a Mannington engineered with their own nailer called The Floor Monster. Sqweeks and pops galore. Today, I think if one encounters this at the beginning of a job, either call the supplier and return the flooring OR get the customer to sign a waiver because these noises don't go away and the installer could end up eating the entire job. Most times, the manufacterer will blame YOU, the installer, for installing their defective flooring!

An initial noise here and there is normal for a floor secured with uphosltery staples. If it is a persistent and general condition,something is going on.

Over the floor described above,deflection could well be the culprit.

Could the stapler be pulling the flooring together too tight causing the joints to peak?
I ain't much of a nailing guy but just read that in the new FCI mag.

A floor runner "pulling stuff too tight"? I have shot an awful lot of those little fasteners. Pulling stuff too tight has never been a possibility,let alone a prob.

You will blow through the tongue before you compress the product.

This sounds like a milling issue to me.

How would the board move at all, if the board was milled at the same thickness, the T&G in the right spot without slop, and the subfloor flat?

Pick one. or all 3 and you might have a problem.

My bad. I was thinking he said a full blown nailer/stapler like an M111FS.

I thought the article in FCI about fastening was great. But then you guys already know this stuff. I wish I had more wood subfloor errr I mean underlayment out here. Glue is king here in the southwest.

You can screw a good floor up my smacking it too tight. The compression set is immediate. You also get a little cup-set(?) right off the bat.

That is a solid phenom,though.

It's funny; guys that finish are not nearly so hung up on cracks as I am. They just fill'em.