Hi all -

I have a 60"x20"x3/4" marble hearth at a 45 degree angle to the room. My plan is to picture frame the hearth, then run 3/4"x4" BR-111 Angico boards perpendicular to the joists and butting up against the hearth frame at a 45 degree angle (actually 45.2 to ensure that those boards run straight into the room, but I'll account for that with the mitre cuts). In this photo, http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/cc190/chipbl/?action=view&current=File0001.jpg I want boards #1 and #12 to line up with the mitred picture frame corners.

-By my calculations, the end of a 4" board cut at a 45 degree angle reveals a 5 5/8" face.

-Twelve boards times 5 5/8" = 67 1/2"

-The width of the hearth plus the picture frame is 68" (60" + two frame boards@4")

Option A: (Preferred)
If I rip the inside (groove side) of the picture frame down by 1/4" (the 1/2" difference divided by 2) the frame becomes 67 1/2" wide (the same as the width of twelve boards). Therefore, in theory I should not have to "notch" any of the boards at the corners of the frame. I'm not even sure what tool I'd use to do this accurately but I don't think I'd like how it would look.

So, my question is this: In reality, the mitred face of twelve 4" boards stapled together with a pneumatic floor stapler probably takes up less than exactly 67 1/2". Can one of you experienced folks give me an idea of how I should approach this so that the twelve boards will line up exactly with the picture frame corners after stapling? Should I expect some amount of compression and therefore expect to cut the long picture frame board "some amount" shorter?

Option B: Rip the inside of the frame as described above but by by 3/4" and NOT staple it. Then insert 1/2" spacers between the frame and the hearth, staple the diagonal boards (but not the frame boards), then take the frame out and cut its boards to length AFTER the diagonal boards are fastened.

The bad part about this is that a threshold would be required to cover the 1/2" gap between the frame and the hearth (good for expansion, bad for aesthetics (related: post on expansion gap is http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodinstaller/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5657&highlight=). There would also be extra face nailing required on the frame since its tongue would be in accessible under the diagonal boards.

An Easy Groove 3/4 router bit (thanks for the tips on that one!) will be used to cut the groove in the angled boards to match the frame tongue.

Apologies for the long post - other options/suggestions more than welcome!

Thanks,
Chip

It's admirable you are considering this aspect of the install. Here's what you may wish to consider. Go ahead and cut your boards to frame the hearth and just tack them in place with a couple of small head finish nail or even use hot melt adhesive (which isn't permanent). Then starting with board # 12 , cut all the mitered ends and tape them together. The idea here is to see if you're idea that 12 boards will get you to the other mitered end evenly. If you're very close to being right on, then go ahead and install the boards. As you near the other end, keep checking to verify the measurement and adjust by either nailing harder OR gapping slightly. Another thought is to place a piece of tape on the diagonal hearth board that board #'s 1 to 12 will butt into. On the tape, carefully mark out where each board should meet. This will be like a gauge for you as you progress and you can thereby tell as you go if you'll get to the end with a full board. Savvy?

I would rip the frame down by 1/4 inch personally. you could set it in place (the frame) then nail down a temp board (going the direction of the flooring) either board number 13 or board 0. Then tap the 12 boards together to make sure the measurements all worked out correctly. That way you could pull the frame out after you had the measurement and increase/decrease the frame size by 1/64 1 /8th etc.

Gary/Jay -

Your replies were very much appreciated, it was the experienced opinion that I was looking for.

Gary, I'll try variations of both of your suggestions. My real area of concern is what you address with the "either nailing harder OR gapping slightly" approach. The 12 boards MUST meet the mitred corners on the hearth frame or I'll never get any sleep.

I had planned on doing what Jay had suggested, meaning I'll have all of my diagonal boards cut before I cut the long frame board - but like I said my real concern is whether the boards will compress when I staple them thus making the long frame board too long. If I tape/tap them together do you think that I could correctly assume no more compression over the 12 boards? Have either of you ever measured how much a 4" exotic HW compresses under stapling?

Thanks,

Chip

by tap I mean completley tight, the same as stapling.

Here is another option.

use 8 inch boards (roughly) either cut offs, or boards you wouldnt actually put into the floor (bad finish etc.) Cut them on the degree that works to match the frame, then you should be able to do the same method I stated earlier but staple the boards together. all that to get the measurement of the frame.

Jay, when you mention that "tap" could potentially mean to actually seat the board, I may not get any additional compression with stapling. I think that may be the best bet.

The only "problem" with your second suggestion is that after opening 25 boxes of the BR-111 I've yet to see any candidate defect boards...

Both Jay's and my approach are very similar. You could install a temp board (which is why I suggested just brad tacking or hot gluing the border piece). That way, if it's too long, easily removed and trimmed. But I don't think you need to. Find the angle the field pieces need to be cut ( 45 degrees or ?) Gang 12 together tightly (use bars clamps if need be) and measure. That's how long your hearth border board needs to be from outside mitered tip to tip. Cut that board and place masking tape on the face. Mark all along the edge on the tape where each course must meet it to end up exactly even at the other miter point. No guess work then. Just simply make sure each course lines up with the corresponding mark. You should rout a groove at each field board miter and have the tongue of the hearth border boards facing out to engage with the grooves.

Perfect. Once again you all have been invaluable. Gary, I assume you suggest that I groove the field boards so that should the frame boards expand, they'll do so towards their tongue and away from the immoveable hearth, correct? (They'll be butted up against the hearth.)

Chip

I'm not considering that. It's just that it is always better to T&G the end butts, to keep them from being noisy and moving. It keeps them flat and even with the board(s) they are butting into.

good call on the routing the boards, It slipped my mind typing. Installing it I wouldnt have LOL.


and somewhere in your BR 111 there should be 1 long bad board, to cut peices and test the theroy (youre destined to drop one out of your hand at some point)

Thanks again - at the end of my ridiculously long original post I mentioned, "An Easy Groove 3/4 router bit (thanks for the tips on that one!) will be used to cut the groove in the angled boards to match the frame tongue. "

Agree with you on dropping a board, except that I hadn't even gotten them all out of the box before I did that!

I'll try and clamp them with 4' pipe clamps to 'simulate' compression.

Hey all, here's how it turned out. Couldn't have done it without the help of this fantastic forum.





Chip[/url]

Looks very nice, did you route grooves into those 45 degree cuts that attach to the frame?

Yes. The easy groove bit (and the bosch flush cut trim saw) were great investments.

For future reference: Any tricks from the pros on how to handle a cut edge against a micro-beveled edge?

A. Use a router bit and bevel the boards
B. Use a laminate trimmer and bevel the end
C. Use a peice of sandpaper and bevel the boards.

stain and seal new beveled edges.

I didnt see that you were doing it on a 45, or I would have mentioned the beveling from the begining

I see you did mention it. But I had never noiticed it. My opologies