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 Post subject: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Location: Tucson AZ
I recently got involved with a client of a major nationwide liquidator of hardwood and bamboo .

A brief time line about the whole ordeal according to the consumers.

Consumer goes and buys Morning S__r stranded click bamboo. Store clerk ( "clerk" meaning no wood science knowledge) tells them to acclimate for two weeks and the installers will come to install. Says nothing about unwrapping bamboo form the cellophane/plastic wrap inside the box to acclimate, no advice on humidification as per the instruction that apparently were not in the boxes, but suddenly appeared in the online version after this issue was brought to their attention(very typical these days).

Preferred installers from come out to install the bamboo. They unwrap the bamboo from the boxes, no documentation of the contractor doing a thermo hygrometer test for temp and relative humidity, simply unwrap and install.

One week later the click stranded bamboo shrinks, separates the locking mechanism, shrinks from under the base boards as well. Installers/contractor comes back and applies putty to open gaps. The floor is dry cupping severely, and was readily apparent when I was there today.

There is a POW WOW with retailer and they're legal department says " It is the consumers responsibility to make certain the site conditions are in compliance, as they only sell the product." They say "It is the installers problem", essentially throwing their own preferred installer under the bus.

Hired gun inspector from retailers front company comes out and confirms, yes this is due to low humidity.

Consumer is totally confused. They complain to the AZ Registrar of contractors who sends out an inspector who knows nothing about flooring and he states; "This is a product issue, Installation is fine"

Consumer goes out and buys a high end humidification unit that is hooked up to the HVAC unit. It runs continuously for one month and fails to reach the 35% rh threshold causing his electric bill to go up $100 a month. Still does not help the stranded click floor to this date one year later.

The consumer is out on a limb for 7 grand.

So, who's the bad guy here in your opinion?

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:50 am 
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Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
I'm surprised we don't hear more about these issues from LL in the desert.

Quote:
So, who's the bad guy here in your opinion?


Very obvious. Lumber Liquidators. I don't see how the locking mechanism could ever work after it became compromised, though I don't know the full specs of theirs. These things are typically milled with such precision that any change in shape and it's history.

Wondering what would have happened had it been unwrapped and acclimated to your arid climate without attention to proper Rh. Would it still function (click properly) as designed? I have my doubts. There's a good test to try.


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:01 am 
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Location: Tucson AZ
Yes Ken, that would be a good test, but you might need a room to test it. I've had people dry down solid strand to glue down, works pretty good. But they also get humidifiers.

This is where the Uniform Commercial Code should work in cases like this. The main problem is the UCC only lasts for 12 months, then you have to sue them on those grounds.

And then there's the stall tactic, held up in the BBB for six months, then they kept stalling. Now it is over a year.

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Location: Tucson AZ
Here is the report, You make the call on his conclusion. Note, when he says there were large gaps, he means the locking mechanism was totally disengaged. Then the installer/contractor came back and tried to fill it with putty. Not working. lol

INSPECTION DETAILS

The cupping of the bamboo planks was noticeable throughout the Installation. The cupping was the
most visible against the predominant light source. The elevation of the raised edges (cupping) was
in a range of 0.020 to 0.030 inch. The side gaps and the end gaps between the bamboo planks
were visible n several areas of the instalatlon. A few areas of the floor had relatively larae side
gaps between the planks. However, most of the gaps between the planks were approXImately 0.022
inch wide. Using a Laser Square SL-24 and a straight edge, the floor was examined for levelness
and flatness. The subfloorlsubstrata (and floor), In two (2) areas of lhedining room, had lower areas
(up to 1/4 inch), which extended over 2 foot long sections. Stepping on the floor in both areas
caused some flexing (vertical movement) of the planks. The poor flatness resulted from inadequate
subfloorlsubstrata preparation. The floor span of the adjoining great room, the dining room, the
kitchen and the entrance was 40'9" long. Expansion joints (e.g. T moldings) were not constructed
between the adjoiling rooms. The expansion gaps at.the perimeter became exposed in two (2)
areas of the installation. A reduction in the size of the planks caused the condition.

Observations I Tests: The horne was located In Oro Valley, Arizona. The bamboo flooring was installed on August 7, 2011.

The homeowners were ooncerned about cupping and gaps. Consider attached photographs 1 - 12,
for a visual overview of the situation. The home was- oonstructed in 1991 and was located within a
desert area that was approximately 2,798 ft above sea level. The /loating system bamboo floor was
installed over an on grade subfloor (concrete slab), old ceramic tiles and underlaymenl The solid
carbonized bamboo flooring was installed In the entrance, the bathroom, the kitchen, the dining
room and in the great room on the main level, The primary trafflc areas were subjected to pivoting
force from two (2) residents and one (1) dog. During the inspection, the homeowners and the
instaRer stated and/or oonflrmed the following. The bamboo flooring was accllmelted for
approximately three (3) weeks before the installation. ThelnslaUer tested the moisture content of the
substratalsubfloor. A moisture banier (plastic sheeting) was not installed over the substrata. A dry
mop, a SWifter and Orange Glo Cleaner was being used for the regular maintenance of the bamboo
floor. The homeowners spend approximately three (3) weeks of each month in this home. A
humldifler was not being used in this home. The bamboo floor did not exhibit any problems aHer the
Installation. The adverse condition (cupping and gaps) occurred approximately two (2) weeks after
the installation and progressed with time. The installer had repaired some gaps between the planks.

Using a UEI Psychrometer (Model # DTH-31; 51#:9291173), the environmental conditions were
mooitored. The environmental conditions during testing and the inspection were as follows. The
ambient temperature range was 75.1 to 76.4 degrees F. The ambient relative humidity range was
15.8 to 16.3 percent. The air movement was low. Using a Delmhorst MoistureCheck Moisture meter
with pins (SJ#: 11412), the moistUre content of the installed bamboo Hooting was tested. The
moisture content of the bamboo planks was below 5.0 percent The moisture melerlDelmhorst has
digital reading and/or scale range from 5 10 60 percent-thus, all readings below 5 percent, wil be
displayed as low moistureoontent The moisture content was performed in fourteen (14) areas of the
installation. Using a Protimeter (MMS-Plus) Moisture meter (Model #BLD5800LH; SI#: 9291173), the
relative moisture content of the subfloor was tested. The relative moisture content of the subfloor, at
the time of the inspection, was consistently in a dry range.

It was not possible to obtain accurate information regarding the ambient temperature, the ambient
relatiVe humidity and the dew point before or during the installation. A humidifier was not being used
in this home.

5

INSPECTION DETAILS

Installation Related Issues:

There were no installation related issues present.

Conclusion: Site Related Issues:

The question addressed was what had caused the condition. which was a concern to the
homeowners. A dry climate (in Arizona) presents envlrorvnental conditions which are- hard on
installed bamboo flooring. A humidifier was not being used in this home. It was apparent that the
Installed bamboo flooring was exposed to dry environmental conditions. The ambient relative
humidity, at the time of the Inspection. was in a loIN range of 15.6 to 16.3 percent. The moisture
content of the Installed bamboo planks was below 5.0 percent. Dryness and/or dehumidified air
space caused considerable loss of moisture in the installed bamboo flooring.

Maintaining a controlled environment Is paramount to the performance of the installed bamboo
flooring. Bamboo floorilg Will exhibit negative changes In locations where low ambient relative
humidity exists. According to the Manufacturer's Instructions. a normal indoor relative humidity level
should be maintained in a range between 35 and 55 percent throughout the year. A humidifier (s) is
recommended. The installed bamboo flooring must not be exposed to extreme dryness.

The Indoor relative humidity was not maintained at the recommended level. Prolonged exposure to
unbalanced/dry environmental conditions caused the light cupping and gaps. This was a locally
caused and environmental/homeowner related condition.

Manufacturing Related Issues:

There were no manufacturing related issues present.

this report is based on information available to the inspaclor at the time of the inspection as well as
Its review and finalization as prepared by the Inspect So__tions' review team. The observations and
conclusion are made to a reasonable degree of certainty. Inspect Sol__ions reserves the right to add
to and/or to modify these findings should additional information become available.

Supplemental:

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:07 pm
Posts: 89
Well Stephen seems your UCC information might be a factor here. Have been in a few court cases where the seller thought they were out of the loop BUT found out the hard way they were not. Judges don't take a good view of a so called professional duping their clients.


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Location: Tucson AZ
Jim, the sad part is that unless you have thousands of dollars to throw into a lawsuit this will continue to happen. Unless some smart young lawyer can start up a class action suit against people like that.

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:34 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Westchester NY
This is sad. The manufacturer is always trying to shift the blame.

First, the store should have told the customer. Second, the instructions should have been in the box...actually let me rephrase that...they should have been ON the box!

How is the customer supposed to know to open the box if the instructions are in the box?

Also, I'm not sure that it was even responsible for the store to sell that product in your climate (but you would know that better than I would...I'm in NY). I heard from people in AZ/NM that bamboo doesn't do well there.

Debbie Gartner, aka The Flooring Girl


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:14 am 
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Quote:
Unless some smart young lawyer can start up a class action suit against people like that.


How about a talented woman from Tucson? You would be a great coach! I would be proud of both of you! This company should be put in its place. I get tired of hearing about their games. Makes the whole industry look bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:07 am 
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Location: Tucson AZ
Ken Fisher wrote:
Quote:
Unless some smart young lawyer can start up a class action suit against people like that.


How about a talented woman from Tucson? You would be a great coach! I would be proud of both of you! This company should be put in its place. I get tired of hearing about their games. Makes the whole industry look bad.


Well she probably could but her job will not allow free lancing.

It would help if people would get smart, if they have a problem like these to go in and tape record them giving out bad advice. It is legal in most all states I believe as long as your not taping other peoples conversations. I know my old boss would do that when he had a nasty customer.

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Stranded Click Bamboo Nightmare. You Make The Call
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:07 pm
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Old issue but when sales people start explaining the hardwood mfg's requirements regarding relative humidity and temperature then they might stand a chance AND this seldom results in a lost sale if explained correctly. I have seen many floors cooled by evaporative cooling that has resulted in the floor cupping and buckling as well as gaps created by too low humidity readings. SAD SAD SAD!


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