[The reason for the thinner rotary peeled products lately ?]

Only partly - the US manufacturers are now competing globally and need better quality to do so and that is part of the thinner switch but the other part is cost as they compete with cheaper production overseas and I believe its cost as the bigger consideration. [/quote]

That was very educational.

Laminate core board HDF / MDF are a flooring inspectors dream come true. It is even more of a dream, since it is now used under wood veneer. Sounds like job security for the inspectors and hired guns. A claim, is a claim!!!

Ask any flooring inspector! I feel sorry for the consumer, that buys the marketing.

Williams former client, mentioned "rubberwood". Yet you didn't exactly say what species this slat board core is made.

I put my fingers out, to learn about rubber wood.
This is all I could find, from the help of a inspector.

http://www.deepaindia.com/rubberwood.htm

It is compared to teak, but 25% softer, then the already soft teak.

Compression parallel to grain N/mm2 : 32

The shrinkage is very small and comparable to teak.
Shrinkage (green to oven-dry).
Tangential : 5.5%
Radial : 2.5%


Lets further the education on the subject. What exacly is the species, used as the coreand layers under the top, species?

LVL

Rubber wood is being used for making LVL, which is a new wood based panel product in India.



Rubber Wood from Quilon

Green (81.2%)

312 Rad

308 Tang

309 End

310 Aver

Dry (12%)

549 Rad

526 Tang

627 End

567 Aver

Rubberwood ( hevea brasiliensis ):
Plantation grown tree for latex production in which, after about 30 yrs., ceases. The trees used to be cut and burned; now the wood is being used in a variety of items. Furniture, toys, construction, etc.
http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/Ch ... b1new.html

HUH? If teak is soft, then what the hell would we call everything else? Butter?

Chuck, he is refering to true teak, which is 1000 on the Janka scale. It is not very hard, about the same as N. American Walnut.

We have used the following in cores:
pines - various kinds (both quarter cut and mixed grain)
spruce - quarter cut
poplar
fir
bracatinga
rubberwood
Brazilian Cherry

Out of all of the woods we use anything from the fir on down really resists cupping. The poplar/spruce/pines will cup if the solid sawn face wear layer needs to move when drying out, especially in the dense tropical woods which have incredible power when moving.

Some of the harder pines surpass the spruce.

For us the main issue of core selection is the power to resist this movement. But once again this is all nuance in that it only comes into play when the flooring is used on a site outside the norms in terms of dry/wet conditions. When used on normal site conditions all cores work !

Actually it's all about price point these days. Just admit it.

With all due deference to my colleages that have posted snipes,

You guys are pissing into the wind on this one.

Gary reminds me that "true teak" has a janka rating of around 1000. Red Oak is around 1200-1280. Would Red oak be deemed by you experts of engineered construction to be an inferior core?

I am amazed at your lack of insight here.

Armed with the realization that I know next to nothing about the science involved in producing an engineered product, I am quite confident that no manufacturer would produce a product for the sake of seeing it fail in the field. Logic is always on Chuck's side.

Stephen,my communist buddy, reminds me that the price of the materials involved in the construction might be a factor they consider in their cost/benefit/performance analysis.
Well, holy dog sqweezins! I would hope that would be a major factor. Were it not, they would not be in business for long.


WR Jopling has been more than kind here. I would like to ask him some questions about engineered construction.

So many questions I could ask. I would love some info on the differences in species as to how they accept the adhesives used in the laminating process and how these vary according to the direction of the grain of the respective(and disparate) species.

I doubt he would have the time to entertain my queries.

He is too busy responding to reactionary ,ignorant accusations.

I am embarrassed by the way you guys are behaving.

How does that song go? "and there's a rat under my bed, and there's a little yellow man in my head..........."

Your pal,
CHU

Some manufactures would prefer to use more costly materials for quality, some not.

Thanks Chuck, How do you think I feel? Something isn't working here. Perhaps a contractor/installer members only area is in the cards so these guys can whine to their hearts delight? Maybe some of these guys don't think consumers visit this area.

I don't know about other peoples motives, but I'm trying to get educated here, with all that has happen.

You know, those that adapt, survive. I'm just trying to understand and LEARN, so I can adapt.

It still isn't clear why the change.

Was it to make it better?
or
Was it to bring cost of manufacturing down?
or
Was it because there were problems with exotics and laminating plys together?


We all agree the construction has changed, right.


I do have to sell this stuff to my clients in a way. Not that I actually supply the wood, but they ask me for recommedations on every job I quote.

Ken,

I wouldn't worry about it. As a consumer who <I>does</I> visit this area, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between informed comments and silly snark like "Some manufactures would prefer to use more costly materials for quality, some not." so I wouldn't worry about that part. What would be great for me, as well as all the pros here, is if more folks on the manufacturers side took the time and effort like Mr. Jopling to post their perspectives. And it would be great to see that perspective challenged in a constructive manner. It's hard to imagine that they'd feel welcome though with some of the comments. I don't' see how it harms anyone by treating them more politely than some have.

Regards

Hi guys,

Well never in a million years did I think I'd be posting on a "Contractors & Installers" hardwood forum, but here goes nothing... Please be gentle.

I, too, am a consumer who's been perusing message boards in my quest for some knowledge on hardwood flooring products/installation. Imagine my fear when I discovered this WFI/WM flooring fiasco -- bad product? bad installer? both? neither? Who to believe?! Since I had already fallen in love with this same WFI product (albeit in a different wear layer species), I'll admit that I may've been prone to convincing myself that the product is fine, but I would never ever have a product installed in my home if I believed it was of poor quality.

That said, I have ordered my flooring from Ken and am waiting with bated breath for it to arrive and be installed. Hopefully, I'll have gorgeous pictures and a glowing report in a month or so.

I VERY MUCH appreciate Mr. Jopling posting information and look forward to more. I also appreciate reading the thoughts and opinions of various installers. Thank you.

Just a homeowner trying to get educated,

Buzz

Well Mr. Macallan maybe you will learn something here. From the pictures I have seen and the manufactures comment on his quality I wonder if its worthy of five stars.
I have seen Ken here trash other manufactures product that he does not sell. Perhaps they do the same.

There are manufactures that only produce quality product, then there are others whom want to be able to supply wood for every consumers budget.

Take Bruce for instance. I have seen him trash them from here to Freds place. Now that they allow him to sell, suddenly its a great company. lol

Get real.