Hey man, good to hear from you! Yep, as I stated in the begining, it can be done either way and there are some good arguements for both ways. I will say that if a wood floor has gotten so wet as to buckle and it needs to be removed, I do not think it is a good idea to leave any of it behind (under the cabinets) due to mold. As you may know, this mold issue has become the newest home contaminent issue. It used to be asbestos and lead paint, then indoor air quality. Now it's toxic mold. Because of this, I would not advise anyone leave behind soaking wet wood that one cannot properly access and dry out. And by triming off boards under cabinets with a toe kick saw, that's what may happen. Again, just my take on it.

Thanks Gary! A point I never would've thought of until it was tooooo late.

Do you pretty much just do every job the same way and coach your builders allong the way as to best get things going OR stay accomidating (which seems to always lead to trouble ) with them?

And what about them pesky islands ... in all kitchen cases we charge labor in wall-to-wall square footage to account for all the hassle with toekicks and generally a real chopped up floor space that is usually 30 - 50 percent more time consuming. Some folks ask ... HEY, you ain't gonna charge me fer the footage under them cabinets are ya?!? And I just smile and say YUP! OR I can subtrct that footage and add a $500 Kitchen charge ... yer choice fella.

Bottom line, it's a waste of time dealing with explaining WHY you charge what you charge. Simply say , "This is what it costs to do the job correctly." Who are they to argue? Are they the flooring experts? Who has the license and the credentials? I tell my builders the correct way to do the job from the git-go. If they are not interested in doing it correctly, then they sign a waiver. And they rarely wish to do that so most of the time they relent and meet my recommendations based on each job. I walk the job, make notes and take measurements and readings and present to them a recommendation, based on the job and the clients wishes. They can decide whatever they want. I do not waste my time dealing with penny-pinchers or control freaks. Bottom line, I am the expert and I know my craft and product better than any builder. So it is I who determines how and when the flooring is installed. There is no negotiation in this regard but I do try to be flexible and accomodating without sacrificing quality.

CAN I GET A WITNESS!!!!

You go guy! I think the last post should be a sticky all by itself. Have you ever considered small business counselor with the SBA as a side gig? Nevermind, why ruin a good calling by getting paid to be who you are.

Thanks again for the good word.

Will

Where I'm from toe kicks are generally 1/4 inch thick. 3/4 hardwood needs more than that for expansion. So how do you install wood after the cabinets. Plus a lot more face nailing which is always a huge customer complaint. Lastly, builder grade wood is far from straight so how can you hit piece in to keep it tight. I say you will get a much better job if the cabinets are installed after the wood.

Toe kicks could also be the last thing installed on a set of cabinets ... after the floor is installed and run under far enough, the kicks are then installed flush to the floor that now has all the room it needs for expansion/contraction under the cabinet.

Face nail? ... how about adhesive in that area ... customer complaint? People gotta know that they are a necessery evil. Majority of species are not too difficult to hide face nails in darker parts of grain.

OR if you're concerned buy and use a "T" bar puller for those types of places. AND you can pre select a handfull of better, straighter boards as you get closer to the kitchen to have set aside for when you're around the tricky areas. With adhesive and a "T" bar pulling boards tight even duct tape can be stretched across the face to hold till glue sets for when shims cant be used. (NOTE: don't do duct tape on many cheaper pre fins)

I don't buy cheap wood and I don't sell my clients builder grade. I find the best way to have a good finish is to have a good start. I don't even try to compete in the world of cheap or builder grade (please don't take offence it's just the nich of clients we're in currently). Some of the best mills out there are only at most .11 - .17 cents a foot more than the cheap mills out there so just how competitive does it have to be out there to not spend anothe .15 cents on better material to promote your livlihood? Do you want to be the affordable guy or the best guy?
I shouldn't name names but I can purchase nested bundles of pure crap from Barefoot with an avg. length of 42" OR I can spend .12 cents/ft. more and get 6' - 12' lengths of straight, smoothe, perfect fitting wood from more lucrative supplier and without a doubt a homeowner keys right in on the diffrence in final appearance and knows the value immediately.

The day I stopped competing on price alone was the day the niche I've found myself in became apparent. Many have said we are on average 15%- 20% higher than our next competitor, but I have yet to lower my price or miss any meals ...


Buy good wood and watch some of your install issues fix themselves ....

Question: I am renovating my home to add hard wood flooring 3/4" on top of 3/8" due to running parallel to my joists. Of course I am not going to remove my Cabinits. But I have 2 questions.

1) What do I do with my dishwasher? I have casters that look like they will raise up to clear the 3/4" + 3/8" to get out if needed?

2) I have an island. Should I remove and place on top or put the flooring around it?

I vote put wood on the whole floor (under the cabs).
Why? A future remod may not have the same footprint as the existing cabs.

Water leak in the kitchen so no more wood in the kitchen?
The plumbing caused the problem so eliminate the plumbing .
A water leak can swell subfloor/underlayment and ruin Tile, vinyl, and make a floating floor float.
jim

You'll appreciate not installing it under the cabinets if you ever have any water damage, and you need to replace some of the floor. No reason to pull up cabinets and or counter tops if they are not damaged, not to mention you are paying for material that will never be seen.

Michal

if it was me id floor under cabinets if possible. if you ever want to change, or remove thos cabinates later, atleast you wont have to try pathing in and matching the floor later on. it will already be in place. plus going only up to cabinets if you ever have a water problem on top of the floor its more likely to run under the floor and cause worse problems such as buckling, as wear the cabinets might stop the water and let it sit on top if the flooring is extended under the cabinates. I've seen this happen in both cases, one floor had to be ripped out, the other was fine. diswasher was improperly installed and it pumped the drain water on the floor.

Maybe I should start a new post since it's sort of off topic...but it sure is close. I'm a DIY homeowner about to begin a solid oak install on 800-1000 feet for a remodel of our main living room, entryway, and another living area. The "other living area" WILL HAVE (but does not today) built in cabinets/bookshelves along two walls.

Seems to me since I'll be building all of this, that it would make more sense to just install the flooring first, then put the cabinets on top. Not only would this be easier for installation of the floor, but in the event we decided to change out the built-ins some day, the floor would be intact and complete.

Anyone have a different perspective on this?

PS There's another advantage in this plan: I can get started on the floors BEFORE I build the built ins....

I think the kitchen installs is where the debate mainly is because of the water issue. Otherwise, it probably makes sense to floor under the cabinets.

Hey,

I do water damage restoration and would agree that you should not install the hardwood under cabinets. It just doesn't make any sense to spend the additional money on flooring you'll never see. And as stated before it makes drying alot harder and expensive.

I am a homeowner redoing my kitchen. I have several people telling me different applications for my floating floor application. Should I install the new floor a few inches under the new cabinets, and put a filler strip at the back, or should I install the cabinets, then the floor. I know that I must leave some space for the floor to move. I don't know if a granit countertop will be too much weight on a floating floor and not let it breath. What would your opion be. Thanks. Frank

Cabinets installed on top of a floating floor need to be shimmed up so that they do not sit on the floor. If you shim them up 1/4" higher than the thickness of the floor, you will allow the floating floor system to still function as it is designed and not void any warrantees.