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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:11 am 
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Why is it unacceptable? If it's water damage don't you think there might be a moisture problem under the cabinets as well? You can't settle up with the insurance company after the fact...I would say it's unacceptable to repair the damage without pulling the cabinets


This entire post is about whether an installer should lay flooring under cabinets ( before cabs are installed ) or afterwords. In presenting arguments for both scenarios, it was suggested by me that if an installer install the flooring first, then the cabinets are installed on top of the floors, and a water leak and subsequent damage ensued, then properly removing all the damaged flooring would be difficult. After doing hundreds of kitchen water damage repairs to wood floors, rarely are any cabinets seriously damaged. Nor is the subflooring either. WHY? Because the cabs are installed on shims, feet, hold-offs and similar. The water typically drains down through the subfloor at some point and the cabs are not damaged, but not before soaking the wood flooring. Since subfloors are designed to be allowed to get wet and dry out and still perform fine, they are not usually damaged either. Not enough to warrant removal. So, in most water damage scenarios, all that is needed is to repair the leak, remove the water damaged portion of the floor, thoroughly dry out the subfloor and when fully dry, re-install new flooring.

If an installer were to install the hardwood UNDER the cabinets and that wood got wet, it would be a wet sandwich, creating the possibility of mold growth that the repair person could not get to without removing the cabinets and counters. I don't know about you but here, the custom build kitchens run into 6 figures. What is unacceptable is to create a problem that did not need to be created ( ei: install flooring under the cabinets ). Of course, if a restoration company stated the cabinets absolutely needed to be removed to allow the kitchen components to be repaired, then that is what would need to be done. But that is NOT the point of this post. The point is, what is better? Install the floors before OR after the kitchen cabinets? Now, make you argument for one way or another.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:17 pm 
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Here's a good illustration, does it make sense to sheet rock all your walls and then have your electrician come in and mount outlets and pull wire ? No , you do your electrical first then sheet rock after. It's the logical way to do it.And flooring in a kitchen is usually a similar situation.There are exceptions like floating floors perhaps as already mentioned

I've been in flooring for over 15 years and have done many homes in Greenwhich ,CT and a few in Manhatten and everywhere in between. Certainly not fly by night kinds of houses . Under normal circumstances, I can deliver the best possible floor (glue down or stapled)(unfinished or prefinished) when I install the floor first and in the case of an unfinished floor do all but the final coat until the kitchen is completely installed. Then I apply the final coat which takes care of any minor scuffs or shallow scratches.

Here's a few of the benefits:

-The base cabinets will be sitting on the flattest possible surface and might even require less shimming to be perfectly level.
-Far less chance of the flooring contractor damaging or scratching the cabinets.I'm careful in any instance.
-With unfinished flooring , there will be much less edging which will speed up the job.
-No hidden unfinished wood under cabinets.All the flooring will be finished and able to resist moisture better as well as spills.

Many builders and kitchen companies hate this because they have to be careful and conscientious . In over 15 years of installing and sanding/finishing floors , I have yet to see a water damage issue where cabinets had to be removed because the flooring extended under the cabinets. In every case, I have been able to correct the situation by having a plumber repair the water issue and then tackling the flooring portion through rip out and re install . But usually, re sanding corrects the problem 75% of the time

If a builder or kitchen company rigidly claims that flooring should be installed after the kitchen , no exceptions , then they are being evasive or dishonest.Maybe they are in a rush and don't feel like taking the time to let the flooring acclimate.

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http://www.addwoodfloors.com


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:59 am 
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Location: Belgium
Well, here in Belgium, acording to the scope of work. The floor is install before the cabinets.
If the client want the cabinets before, to save on + - 8 - 10 M², the labour cost for installation in this situation will be 30% higher over the normal rate.
By this way I assure you that all the clients choose to do the flooring before.
I do kitchen installation too, I always have some plywood 4mm thickness 6x4 which are placed around, after having levelled all the base cabinets.
If it's tiling, do you think that you can tile after the kitchen. These type of questions here, people will take you for crazy. :o
OK let have some more interesting POST.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:57 pm 
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Hi.......!!
I'm completely redoing my kitchen including wall changes, new cabinets, countertop and lighting. I will be installing either prefinished engineered flooring or prefinished 3/4 flooring. (I'm still deciding which is better). Should I install the floor BEFORE OR AFTER I put the cabinets in? I get conflicting opinion from the cabinet and flooring retailers. The cabinet person says the floor goes in last and the floor person says the floor should be first. Also, my construction floor is 3/4 plywood. Do I need to tack on a 1/4" sheet of plywood before the finished floor as if I was installing a vinyl floor? HELP!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:18 am 
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Lyra96 wrote:
Hi.......!!
I'm completely redoing my kitchen including wall changes, new cabinets, countertop and lighting. I will be installing either prefinished engineered flooring or prefinished 3/4 flooring. (I'm still deciding which is better). Should I install the floor BEFORE OR AFTER I put the cabinets in? I get conflicting opinion from the cabinet and flooring retailers. The cabinet person says the floor goes in last and the floor person says the floor should be first. Also, my construction floor is 3/4 plywood. Do I need to tack on a 1/4" sheet of plywood before the finished floor as if I was installing a vinyl floor? HELP!!!

Put the floor in first, because when you install up to cabinets the last 3 rows of wood coming to the cabinets will be finish nailed instead of stapled because the gun wont fit, If the cabinets arnt in yet the finished nailed boards will be hidden under the cabinets. And no you dont add another layer of plywood, you're all set. Your cabinet guy doesnt want to have to protect the floor while installing. I would rather tighter boards just under my feet at the cabinets, especially where there could be a little water spillage here or there. Remember, the flooring will run across the joist pattern, if that doesnt look good for you , add the 1/4" plywood and that will give you an inch of subfloor allowing you to run the flooring the other direction.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:19 am 
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Joe:

Good point. It's not something often mentioned...rarely. Also some installers will face/top nail the remaining rows where the floor nailer/stapler cannot reach.

Thanks for joining in:)


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:37 pm 
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It depends on where the cabinets are... i generally would say it's better to have the hardwood down first for a few reasons... the install will look better overall, easier to sand, plus if you ever have the cabinets replaced down the road you don't have to worry about them being exact size.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:02 pm 
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I like it better installed before because if you do a remodel down the road you have a complete floor to work with. There are some nice things about doing it after but I would say do it before because I think its a little easier and its better for long term. If you do it first make sure the other subs are very careful with it tho. They can tend to scratch it up when working.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 pm 
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unfinished before cabinets..then finish at end of project.

prefinished after cabinets..thats what we always have done..no issues.

you get the crazys who want you to come in a seal where the cabinets go..so they can put the cabinets over..

wasted efforts on all parties involved.

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All Flortec Inc, West Milford, NJ

http://www.flortechardwood.net


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Gary wrote:
Quote:
One other issue to consider: REPAIRS. Ever try to remove cupped and buckled T&G wood flooring from UNDER an installed cabinet. Not very easy. Many insurance water damage claims are from leaks in the kitchen. If the floors were under the cabinets, in some instances, they could have to remove their cabinets to remove the water-damaged flooring! :shock: That is unacceptable for repairs.

This is definitely true. I have never installed flooring under cabinets like that though i have done a couple repairs from such installations and it was not easy. A little forethought can always save headache in the long run. Sure it would be easier to install first but you have always got to consider the next trades coming in to work behind you and the effect your work will have on them now and in the future. I have been installing hardwood, laminates and tile for 17 yrs and I am always near the end of the totem pole for my installations. Have you ever laid a beautiful floor only to have it destroyed by less than careful workers coming in behind you? If I had my way about it I would be last on the job every time. :D By the way everyone I am new to posting here so I would like to take this opportunity to say hello to everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:48 am 
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Welcome aboard Tradesman. We're always happy to have newcomers, but take a look at our rules. I removed a link you posted because...well... take a look at our rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Last always! Two things come to mind! Ever try to take plywood and hardwood out from under cabinets? If floor floods it will rot and mildew there not a pleasant prospect. How will the wood be allowed to expand or contract if cabinets are nailed to them or even resting on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Not sure of the set-up but in my kitchen if you installed the cabinets and countertop and then the hardwood floor you would never be able to get the dishwasher out from under the countertop if it needed repair and was leaking.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:39 am 
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I agree with you Jedecker and thanks for putting light on this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Agree with JD as well. I just did a repair on a flooded hardwood and luckily they had those cheapy cabinets from Ikea, still a pain in the azz cutting around those supports.

As far as the diswasher goes, you can set the cabinets 3/4 of an inch higher with shims, run the hardwood under the dishwasher. Slide that puppy in there. Planning before hand is a bitch. :P

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Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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