Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: Hardwood Floor Before or After Kitchen Cabinets?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:01 am 
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My GC wants them layed after he's done installing everything. Shouldn't they go under the cabinets?

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This discussion is about whether or not to add a hardwood flooring before or after kitchen cabinets. Hope that the opinions presented in this topic will help you decide on the best procedure to install your hardwood floors when kitchen cabinets are involved.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:46 pm 
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We gotta get a sticky on this question as well. Hardly a week goes by without someone asking this. Either/or is the answer. But a majority of the times, the flooring goes in AFTER the cabinets. There's reasons why. Listen to your contractor.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:22 pm 
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Thanks Gary. Sorry for the repetition. I'm new to the board.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:27 pm 
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Gary:

I looked for ten minutes and found only one decent thread. Maybe you could put together a sticky and I'll put it into place.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:35 pm 
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Gary, I was under the impression that the cabinates should go in first, Speaking of unfinished flooring. Then all the work done, then the floors get finished. WE usually put a coat of sealer on them after install, let the trades finish, then we get in there.
I guess everyone has a differnt opinion of the idea. I can see the contractors point, but I think the height of the dishwasher under the cabinates would be an issue.
Well that my 2 cents.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:49 am 
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Quote:
but I think the height of the dishwasher under the cabinates would be an issue.


It depends on the cabinets. Most of the remodels I work on have the cabinets custom built. The cabinet maker takes into consideration the finished floor. Even if they were factory stock cabinets, 3/4" plywood could be installed where the cabinets sit to accomadate 3/4" flooring. This is all part of proper kitchen design and planning. As a hardwood flooring installer, it is EASIER for me to lay the floor before the cabinets are installed but NONE of my contractors will do this. There's more to the story than meets the eye. Oftentimes, if the cabs are custom made, the contractor gets a BIG payment once they're installed but he gets nothing having them sitting in the garage or some wharehouse. The sooner he gets them in, the sooner he can get the counters measured. The fabrication for the tops is normally two weeks from measure to install, during that time, the general wants the floors laid because nothing else can be done till the tops are down. It's often about keeping things moving along and work being done on the project. One can certainly lay an unfinished floor first, then install the cabinets and then wait two weeks for the counters to be installed with NO work being done but customers and contractors hate that. Better to immediately install the cabs, measure the tops, lay the floor, then install the tops with no downtime. Once the tops are installed, then sinks, plumbing and electrical hookups can proceed along with appliances. It just gets the project done quicker is all. And for PREFINISHED floors, they most definitely should be done at near the very last or they will get trashed. Anyway, this is the thinking behind installing wood floors after the cabinets. One other issue to consider: REPAIRS. Ever try to remove cupped and buckled T&G wood flooring from UNDER an installed cabinet. Not very easy. Many insurance water damage claims are from leaks in the kitchen. If the floors were under the cabinets, in some instances, they could have to remove their cabinets to remove the water-damaged flooring! :shock: That is unacceptable for repairs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:21 pm 
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I was told by my hardwood installer that it was OK to install the hardwood under my kitchen cabinetry - we had no choice to install the floors at the time we did, so it had to be done. Our stuff is prefinished Engineered flooring.

Our cabinet installers have been telling us that we may have a problem because installing the cabinetry over hardwood is not a good idea - the cabinets will become unaligned with the shifting of the wood and our granite will probably crack and break.

Is this true?

Thanks,
Nadia


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:59 pm 
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False!!!!


Your cabinet makers are looking for excuses and out's for their shoddy work, before they even install it. If they build solid well built cabinets, there should be no movement.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:06 pm 
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Great, thank you for the response - his explanation didn't sound right to me...

Nadia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:19 pm 
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My wife and I are doing a kitchen remodel. I talked to many different contractors and read articles from several sources on this topic before we made our decision. From everything I've learned, it's strictly a matter of preference. There are pro's and con's to either option-

If you install cabinets then the floor and at some point in the future, you want to change your cabinets or your kitchen layout, you'll have to replace your whole floor or try to find a match for the existing floor, which could be tricky.

If you floor under the cabinets, you'll spend a little more money, because you'll be flooring an area you can't see. (Most builders don't floor under the cabinets for this reason.)

After much thought, we decided to install the floor, then the cabinets. Sure it costs a little more, but for us we felt it was the right thing to do.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:05 pm 
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Jeff and Lynne,

You bring up a good point about future renovations and not having to patch the floors if/when cabinetry is moved. But here is my take on it. Most of the kitchen renovations I am involved in are in the $100,000.00+ range. I find it hard to imagine someone spending that kind of money remodeling their kitchen only to turn around a few years later to renovate again. So the future cost savings isn't really an issue, IMO. And if someone has the capitol to renovate that often, then the little extra it will cost to patch the floors should not be an issue. From my perspective, the thing that does matter is the ability to repair the floor should it need it. If a wood floor gets excessively wet, it can cup and buckle. And if that happens under the cabinets, it will be difficult to get the wood out from under the cabinets. And perhaps the cabinets would need to be removed. So then what happens to that $15,000.00 solid granite counter top that was glued and epoxied down to the cabinets? See my point? Now a simple floor repair has turned into a major headache. IMO, the best reason for putting floors in after the cabinets have been installed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:08 pm 
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True!!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:16 am 
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Gary wrote:
Jeff and Lynne,

You bring up a good point about future renovations and not having to patch the floors if/when cabinetry is moved. But here is my take on it. Most of the kitchen renovations I am involved in are in the $100,000.00+ range. I find it hard to imagine someone spending that kind of money remodeling their kitchen only to turn around a few years later to renovate again. So the future cost savings isn't really an issue, IMO. And if someone has the capitol to renovate that often, then the little extra it will cost to patch the floors should not be an issue. From my perspective, the thing that does matter is the ability to repair the floor should it need it. If a wood floor gets excessively wet, it can cup and buckle. And if that happens under the cabinets, it will be difficult to get the wood out from under the cabinets. And perhaps the cabinets would need to be removed. So then what happens to that $15,000.00 solid granite counter top that was glued and epoxied down to the cabinets? See my point? Now a simple floor repair has turned into a major headache. IMO, the best reason for putting floors in after the cabinets have been installed.


Gary has a great point. With wood, I wouldn't want to go under the cabinets. We finished a week or so ago on a ~100K kitchen remodel and we went with a fancy travertine. I decided that we were going to go with flooring under the cabinets because there was no danger of buckling etc.

In the previous kitchen, I was changing the dishwasher out and the temporary plug I installed leaked. Ended up ruining about 6-7 strips of wood. It was annoying to fix, but if it had gone under the cabinets, it would have been more than annoying. After that experience we decided that wood in the kitchen wasn't for us.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:59 am 
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Gary wrote:
If the floors were under the cabinets, in some instances, they could have to remove their cabinets to remove the water-damaged flooring! :shock: That is unacceptable for repairs.


We've done this using our toe kick saw for repair calls (we didn't origionally install the floor). Wasnt easy or fun but it worked decently enough and didn't need to touch the cabinets BUT we did mangle the toe kick board and it needed to be replaced.

By the way ... HI GARY! I haven't posted in a while, hope you are well.

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Heritage Hardwood Floors
Coeur 'd Alene, ID


In order to achieve what the competition cannot grasp, we must complete what they will not attempt. Nobody ever said it would be easy, but it's darn sure worth it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:13 pm 
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Gary wrote:
Better to immediately install the cabs, measure the tops, lay the floor, then install the tops with no downtime. Once the tops are installed, then sinks, plumbing and electrical hookups can proceed along with appliances. It just gets the project done quicker is all.



Not to mention that in my part of the world (North Idaho) many builders don't get thier heat cranked until all of this is done so the wood can't ACCLIMATE (yet another HOT topic) propperly anyway. I generally prefer site finished floors go in before cabinets because it is EASIER but we have a habbit of trying to stay flexible for our customers and do the best we can in any situation. Boy, we can bat this topic back and forth all day long can't we.

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William
Heritage Hardwood Floors
Coeur 'd Alene, ID


In order to achieve what the competition cannot grasp, we must complete what they will not attempt. Nobody ever said it would be easy, but it's darn sure worth it.


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